Current Affairs The Conservative Party

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peteblue said:
It should have been. It’s been screwed by both sides, with our government and civil service being absolutely clueless....
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To pretend that this could ever be the easiest deal in history seems a bit ridiculous to be honest . Could it have been better handled , I’m sure it could but easy ? I can’t see that to be honest . You’d think having political and intellectual heavyweights like Davis , Raab and Johnson at the heart of it would have made it run like a well oiled machine .
 
peteblue said:
Indeed.....I’ve said for years that our MP’s are pygmies to those that went before. A second vote would destroy democracy in the U.K..We might as well let the military run the country rather than the incompetents we have now......
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Pete the problem is that a second vote would do the same as no vote at all - the same people would be in charge, indeed the “fight” for a People’s Vote can only be seen as an attempt to keep the same people in charge (given that the alternative, a GE might result in them losing a lot of power) rather than taking any meaningful step to fix our country.

FWIW this is the main reason why I am so pro-Corbyn; he represents the biggest challenge to that lot of my lifetime, and certainly the only one that has a chance of getting them out of a position of control.
 
peteblue said:
Another vote would not keep us in. If Leave voters refused to vote then there would be mayhem and our democratic process would be over. If the government then proceeded to remain anyway, the EU would just stitch us up by saying that we left at the end of March, so all existing rebates and concessions would be removed, the Euro etc etc would have to be adopted etc. The French yellow jacket protest would look like a tea party......you cannot play fast and loose with our democracy to get the ‘right’ result and expect no comeback.....
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I feel that needs to happen regardless of how this pans out. Just as with America, much of the rest of the world is looking on the behaviour of our politicians with utter bemusement. Our stock has seldom been lower on the global stage.

With regards to your comments on democracy, I presume you disagree with the motion to oust May from office then? I mean not only had the country voted her in, but her party had also done so (quite resoundingly), so they shouldn't be allowed another vote because it would ruin our democracy?
 
tsubaki said:
Pete the problem is that a second vote would do the same as no vote at all - the same people would be in charge, indeed the “fight” for a People’s Vote can only be seen as an attempt to keep the same people in charge (given that the alternative, a GE might result in them losing a lot of power) rather than taking any meaningful step to fix our country.

FWIW this is the main reason why I am so pro-Corbyn; he represents the biggest challenge to that lot of my lifetime, and certainly the only one that has a chance of getting them out of a position of control.
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A bloke who has never had a job outside of politics and has been a MP for 30 odd years is the main challenge to the political establishment? With heroes like that...
 
Bruce Wayne said:
I feel that needs to happen regardless of how this pans out. Just as with America, much of the rest of the world is looking on the behaviour of our politicians with utter bemusement. Our stock has seldom been lower on the global stage.

With regards to your comments on democracy, I presume you disagree with the motion to oust May from office then? I mean not only had the country voted her in, but her party had also done so (quite resoundingly), so they shouldn't be allowed another vote because it would ruin our democracy?
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No one, other than her own constituents voted May in. I voted for my local MP. The party picks its leader, and I just want the government to deliver on its manifesto promises. If the present leader is incapable of delivering on that manifesto then I have no problem with replacing her with someone who will.....
 
tsubaki said:
Pete the problem is that a second vote would do the same as no vote at all - the same people would be in charge, indeed the “fight” for a People’s Vote can only be seen as an attempt to keep the same people in charge (given that the alternative, a GE might result in them losing a lot of power) rather than taking any meaningful step to fix our country.

FWIW this is the main reason why I am so pro-Corbyn; he represents the biggest challenge to that lot of my lifetime, and certainly the only one that has a chance of getting them out of a position of control.
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There are too many career politicians, just stealing a living from the public purse. Corbyn is just the same...
 
peteblue said:
No one, other than her own constituents voted May in. I voted for my local MP. The party picks its leader, and I just want the government to deliver on its manifesto promises. If the present leader is incapable of delivering on that manifesto then I have no problem with replacing her with someone who will.....
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  • Exit the European single market and customs union but seek a "deep and special partnership" including comprehensive free trade and customs agreement
  • Vote in both Houses of Parliament on "final agreement" for Brexit
  • Assess whether to continue with specific European programmes and it "will be reasonable that we make a contribution" to the ones which continue
  • Agree terms of future partnership with EU alongside withdrawal, both within the two years allowed under Article 50
  • Convert EU law into UK law and later allow parliament to pass legislation to "amend, repeal or improve" any piece of this
  • Remain signatories to the European Convention on Human Rights for the next parliament
  • Repeal or replace the Human Rights Act "while the process of Brexit is under way" ruled out, although consideration will be given to the UK's "human rights legal framework" when Brexit concludes
  • Reduce and control immigration from Europe after Brexit
  • Seek to replicate all existing EU free trade agreements
  • Support the ratification of trade agreements entered into during our EU membership
  • Introduce a Trade Bill in the next parliament
  • Create a network of Her Majesty's Trade Commissioners to head nine new regional overseas posts
  • Reconvene the Board of Trade to increase exports from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as well as England.

Where is a no deal Brexit part of that?
 
Harryflashman said:
To pretend that this could ever be the easiest deal in history seems a bit ridiculous to be honest . Could it have been better handled , I’m sure it could but easy ? I can’t see that to be honest . You’d think having political and intellectual heavyweights like Davis , Raab and Johnson at the heart of it would have made it run like a well oiled machine .
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Well, we had two sides that have worked hand in glove for 40+ years. We had regulatory and legal compatibility. We have processes in place for pretty well every activity. If Canada can do a deal, with none of those things in place, then I don’t believe it is unfair to say that it should have been easy by comparison......
 
peteblue said:
Well, we had two sides that have worked hand in glove for 40+ years. We had regulatory and legal compatibility. We have processes in place for pretty well every activity. If Canada can do a deal, with none of those things in place, then I don’t believe it is unfair to say that it should have been easy by comparison......
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Didn’t that take 7 years though ? Obviously they don’t have the shared border issue combined with the GFA . I think if that wasn’t a consideration it might have been a little bit simpler but still I couldn’t maybe not the easiest in history
 
Bruce Wayne said:
  • Exit the European single market and customs union but seek a "deep and special partnership" including comprehensive free trade and customs agreement
  • Vote in both Houses of Parliament on "final agreement" for Brexit
  • Assess whether to continue with specific European programmes and it "will be reasonable that we make a contribution" to the ones which continue
  • Agree terms of future partnership with EU alongside withdrawal, both within the two years allowed under Article 50
  • Convert EU law into UK law and later allow parliament to pass legislation to "amend, repeal or improve" any piece of this
  • Remain signatories to the European Convention on Human Rights for the next parliament
  • Repeal or replace the Human Rights Act "while the process of Brexit is under way" ruled out, although consideration will be given to the UK's "human rights legal framework" when Brexit concludes
  • Reduce and control immigration from Europe after Brexit
  • Seek to replicate all existing EU free trade agreements
  • Support the ratification of trade agreements entered into during our EU membership
  • Introduce a Trade Bill in the next parliament
  • Create a network of Her Majesty's Trade Commissioners to head nine new regional overseas posts
  • Reconvene the Board of Trade to increase exports from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as well as England.

Where is a no deal Brexit part of that?
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I doubt any of it will happen. I think Brexit is over and that we will never leave the EU.....
 
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