Current Affairs The Conservative Party

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Bruce Wayne said:
That's the dilemma isn't it? At the moment we know that the rollout of this policy isn't working, that much is clear. What we don't really know is why it's not working.
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Hmmm let's see: should we try to figure this out first, and ensure that it will work properly before we go ahead with destroying thousands of people's lives? Do we bear that most basic of responsiblities?

or nah....

I mean, it's not like anything bad could possibly happen to us personally if we render millions of people susceptible to demagogues promising to help them Take Back Control, is it?
 
Bruce Wayne said:
That quote seems fair enough to me. The general premise behind putting all welfare payments into one makes a lot of sense, but the devil is in the application (as always). I can't say I know a great deal about it, but there do appear to have been a large number of mistakes made in the application of it. Whilst politicians can't be absolved from blame, the civil service will be the ones doing a lot of the application of this, so they should shoulder some responsibility too. Having done some work in a few government departments, the level of input from the minister is pretty small, yet they're largely the lightning rod for any criticism of the service that the civil service deliver.

It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking the Tories are evil, therefore replacing them would instantly make universal credit work, but the civil servants would largely remain the same whomever is in government. I mean what would Labour do? McDonnell has said they would scrap it, but then Chakrabati says it would merely be tweaked (and renamed). It seems a likely stepping stone towards UBI or something of that nature tbh, so I can't see AN Other party scrapping it, and I'm not at all sure that AN Other party would be better able to manage the civil service roll out than the Tories have been, as the people actually doing it will be the same.
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The level of involvement from the minister is relatively small?? IDS was heavily involved with the implementation of UC. He was repeatedly told by junior and middle management in the dwp that it would not work given the pitifully small amount of money invested in computer systems and staff. He chose not to listen. Very convenient to blame civil servants isn't it? I have firsthand knowledge of this as, like you I worked in a govt department for many years...
 
NilSatisOptimum said:
Very much fits into his view as explored in his book he co authored with others 'Britania Unchained Less state, UK citizen have too many protections makes them soft and lazy non competitive etc. Just basic welfare for all. There we are a living example of Conservative Britain and he does not want to comment.

Anyway, Conservative government has been well warned and critiqued about Universal Credit!
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Have you read the book (I haven't and hadn't heard of it until you mentioned it), but it's surely only right to critique a book having read it all rather than extracts in a paper.
 
mellowblue said:
The level of involvement from the minister is relatively small?? IDS was heavily involved with the implementation of UC. He was repeatedly told by junior and middle management in the dwp that it would not work given the pitifully small amount of money invested in computer systems and staff. He chose not to listen. Very convenient to blame civil servants isn't it? I have firsthand knowledge of this as, like you I worked in a govt department for many years...
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Might have just been my departments like, but across BIS (as was), the NHS and MoD, there hasn't been much, if any, input from their respective ministers in the work I was involved in.
 
mellowblue said:
The level of involvement from the minister is relatively small?? IDS was heavily involved with the implementation of UC. He was repeatedly told by junior and middle management in the dwp that it would not work given the pitifully small amount of money invested in computer systems and staff. He chose not to listen. Very convenient to blame civil servants isn't it? I have firsthand knowledge of this as, like you I worked in a govt department for many years...
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Didnt the Government, (and not just this one) move the actual day to day admin for UC and other stuff to private companies like Capita? Issued them targets, and basically let them get on with it?

Or am I thinking of something else?
 
mellowblue said:
The level of involvement from the minister is relatively small?? IDS was heavily involved with the implementation of UC. He was repeatedly told by junior and middle management in the dwp that it would not work given the pitifully small amount of money invested in computer systems and staff. He chose not to listen. Very convenient to blame civil servants isn't it? I have firsthand knowledge of this as, like you I worked in a govt department for many years...
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This analysis is spot on. The same thing happened under Darling with JSA - I was in the DSS/Benefits Agency at the time in a Management grade. For a long time Darling refused to accept that the contracted computer supplier (not giving the name here) were basically lying to the Government in saying nothing was going wrong, when the initial trials on the back of the mainframe systems was crashing constantly. In the end, Darling put it back 6 months, and it was introduced on a very slow drip basis, and was still a cock-up - claims were still having to be processed on a manual basis, and live cases also, for the 2-3 years following the official implementation date. It eventually came in, in spite of Darling, and because of the efforts of the ordinary civil servants.

And I wish I could tell you why the 'payment card at post offices' never came in (I was on secondment to a Headquarters team for it), but there is no chance of that...
 
roydo said:
Didnt the Government, (and not just this one) move the actual day to day admin for UC and other stuff to private companies like Capita? Issued them targets, and basically let them get on with it?

Or am I thinking of something else?
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Yerrrp...

I've been in the system, chewed up and spar out, had it not been for immediate family I would be living off food Bank contributions...

And there are plenty of people I know in a lot worse situation..

It is totally deplorable
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Have you read the book (I haven't and hadn't heard of it until you mentioned it), but it's surely only right to critique a book having read it all rather than extracts in a paper.
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Not all of it. But you sound like Dominic Raab (another author) with his defence of it.

Still Conservative government goes strength to strength, homeless round 320,000, not 4000 they normally trot out.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-46289259
 
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NilSatisOptimum said:
Not all of it. But you sound like Dominic Raab (another author) with his defence of it.

Still Conservative government goes strength to strength, homeless round 320,000, not 4000 they normally trot out.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-46289259
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Yup, famously up (at least) 170% since 2010.

Presumably it's because all 320,00 have decided to become 170% lazier in 8 years.

Or perhaps otherwise sound and benevolent Tory/Lib Dem policies were sabotaged once again by those blundering nincompoops in the civil service.
 
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summerisle said:
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Something about the sincerest form of flattery

Bruce Wayne said:
I've got evidence of you and Pete having a race Joe so you can't fool me.

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