Current Affairs The benefits of Brexit Page

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I'm seriously thinking of becoming a Brexiteer for the sake of argument. There must be a reason somewhere or benefit that can be found for Brexit.
Bruce Wayne said:
It doesn't help that the narrative has shifted towards one of 'short-term pain, but long-term gain'. Firstly, I'm 99% certain that not only did no Brexit campaigner suggest this would be the case in the slightest, and equally no one on here suggested that would be the case either, and this has only flipped because those campaigning for it have got to take account for their actions now and are trying to wriggle out of it (so their supporters are doing likewise and trying to change history). Secondly, by saying the gains will be many years hence (or 50 years in Mogg's case), then it absolves them of any responsibility for things whatsoever, as the good times are always just around the corner. That's a major cop out, and leads to understandable frustration among those so often accused of not getting behind the project.
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We may not have confiture today, but we'll have good old British jam tomorrow.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
It doesn't help that the narrative has shifted towards one of 'short-term pain, but long-term gain'. Firstly, I'm 99% certain that not only did no Brexit campaigner suggest this would be the case in the slightest, and equally no one on here suggested that would be the case either, and this has only flipped because those campaigning for it have got to take account for their actions now and are trying to wriggle out of it (so their supporters are doing likewise and trying to change history). Secondly, by saying the gains will be many years hence (or 50 years in Mogg's case), then it absolves them of any responsibility for things whatsoever, as the good times are always just around the corner. That's a major cop out, and leads to understandable frustration among those so often accused of not getting behind the project.
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Hypocrisy personified by an incompetent fool. I thought this was going to be the easiest deal in human history.

 
Barnfred 55 said:
As somebody who has been there and done it, can I just give you some advice guys. Don't do it to yourselves. Nobody is really interested in what you have to say. They just want to pull your views to pieces. Hence the bingo comments.

Unless you are in here purely to WUM, or are incredibly thick skinned, they'll just wear you down in the end. Just leave them to their forum where they can post their anti Brexit messages and poke fun at our expense, and with a bit of luck they'll get bored eventually.
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Poland are making our blue passport's. They are having a benefit from Brexit.

qz.com

The new British passport is actually only kind of British—but very blue

In a moment of great post-Brexit pride, the UK government has unveiled the country’s new, non-EU passport. It will be dark blue, as it was before 1988, when it was changed to burgundy to align with the rest of the (then) European Economic Community (now European Union) design.
qz.com qz.com

So instead of allowing polish people to come to the UK to work, we give them jobs in their homeland so they can make a life and pay taxes in their homeland. At this rate Johnson will be able to back peddle on infrastructure projects and continue the managed decline of the UK.
 
NilSatisOptimum said:
Poland are making our blue passport's. They are having a benefit from Brexit.

qz.com

The new British passport is actually only kind of British—but very blue

In a moment of great post-Brexit pride, the UK government has unveiled the country’s new, non-EU passport. It will be dark blue, as it was before 1988, when it was changed to burgundy to align with the rest of the (then) European Economic Community (now European Union) design.
qz.com qz.com

So instead of allowing polish people to come to the UK to work, we give them jobs in their homeland so they can make a life and pay taxes in their homeland. At this rate Johnson will be able to back peddle on infrastructure projects and continue the managed decline of the UK.
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Trifles aside, it's fairly well established that if companies can't import the talent they need, then outsourcing the work to where the talent is is far more common than upskilling the local population.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Because it doesn't really hold up to any scrutiny. When you want to control migration despite all the evidence showing that this leads to worse outcomes than not doing so, it invites ridicule. When you wish to take back sovereignty despite evidence showing that Britain got its way the vast majority of times in the EU (and especially when we are almost certain to have to cede ground on various things in any partnership with the US), then that invites ridicule.

I've no doubt that gentleman that killed himself from the flat earth society believed the earth was flat, but that doesn't make it so, yet we're in a situation where simply believing something to be so is giving the same credibility of having actual evidence that it is. You and I spoke briefly about this in relation to the new passport, as while it's very clear what rights are lost by the new passport, the only thing that's clear we're gaining is one of a different colour. That so many Brexit supporters (not on here I don't believe) are creaming themselves over that situation is nothing short of ridiculous.

Had Johnson come out and said, "here is our nice new blue passport, we've also negotiated visa free travel to xyz, you can use it to setup a business in abc..." and so on, then I'm not sure many would argue too much. Instead, we just have to marvel at its blue'ness.
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I'm trying very hard not to get drawn into these conversations but when I read things like this I can't help myself.

Your first paragraph Bruce is your typical opening gambit. Said with such certainty that nobody can ever doubt it's validity, but the truth is there is very little substance behind it. For instance I believe you posted 1 report that concluded that free movement provided better results than controlled immigration. You may have posted more but I don't recall seeing it. That is hardly the same as "all the evidence". The sovereignty comment was just the sort of vague statement that you accuse us leavers of making. I could take you to task on this in the same way that I have taken you to task on many such posts you have made in here and in the main thread over the last couple of years. Sometimes you have been right. But on other occasions I have proved that your post was actually just your opinion, and the basis of that opinion was invariably your view that we have a Tory government who are liars and will never carry out their promises.

But I no longer make posts attempting to justify why I voted Brexit because, apart from being fed up repeating myself, there's just no point. If I see a post that is blatantly wrong I will sometimes pull it up, but I don't do that anywhere near as much as I used to. What I find myself doing more of these days is defending my right to have a point of view. I've never questioned anybody why they voted to remain. I've always assumed that they have a reason and that's good enough for me. And that would still have been the case had the country voted to remain. But sadly that is not reciprocated.

You will see in the main thread that GOT members voted Remain almost exactly 2:1. But that is not reflected in the numbers that post regularly in here which are probably closer to 20:1 or even 30:1. There is a reason for that Bruce, and that is leave voters are generally not welcome in here. I've even put micknick on ignore 3 times in the past to try and stop myself coming in here, and I shouldn't need to do that in an Everton supporters forum.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Trifles aside, it's fairly well established that if companies can't import the talent they need, then outsourcing the work to where the talent is is far more common than upskilling the local population.
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Totally, plus the cost, if you can find someone to do the upskilling. I'm about to pick up a contract doing just that for over 500 notes per day for one on one training. They struggled to find anyone to travel outside of London.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
I'm trying very hard not to get drawn into these conversations but when I read things like this I can't help myself.

Your first paragraph Bruce is your typical opening gambit. Said with such certainty that nobody can ever doubt it's validity, but the truth is there is very little substance behind it. For instance I believe you posted 1 report that concluded that free movement provided better results than controlled immigration. You may have posted more but I don't recall seeing it. That is hardly the same as "all the evidence". The sovereignty comment was just the sort of vague statement that you accuse us leavers of making. I could take you to task on this in the same way that I have taken you to task on many such posts you have made in here and in the main thread over the last couple of years. Sometimes you have been right. But on other occasions I have proved that your post was actually just your opinion, and the basis of that opinion was invariably your view that we have a Tory government who are liars and will never carry out their promises.

But I no longer make posts attempting to justify why I voted Brexit because, apart from being fed up repeating myself, there's just no point. If I see a post that is blatantly wrong I will sometimes pull it up, but I don't do that anywhere near as much as I used to. What I find myself doing more of these days is defending my right to have a point of view. I've never questioned anybody why they voted to remain. I've always assumed that they have a reason and that's good enough for me. And that would still have been the case had the country voted to remain. But sadly that is not reciprocated.

You will see in the main thread that GOT members voted Remain almost exactly 2:1. But that is not reflected in the numbers that post regularly in here which are probably closer to 20:1 or even 30:1. There is a reason for that Bruce, and that is leave voters are generally not welcome in here. I've even put micknick on ignore 3 times in the past to try and stop myself coming in here, and I shouldn't need to do that in an Everton supporters forum.
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Feel free to actually post some evidence to the contrary if you think @Bruce Wayne is wrong. It's the same old story otherwise 'i think x and you should treat that as equivalent to any facts because I strongly believe it and you should respect my opinion'.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
I'm trying very hard not to get drawn into these conversations but when I read things like this I can't help myself.

Your first paragraph Bruce is your typical opening gambit. Said with such certainty that nobody can ever doubt it's validity, but the truth is there is very little substance behind it. For instance I believe you posted 1 report that concluded that free movement provided better results than controlled immigration. You may have posted more but I don't recall seeing it. That is hardly the same as "all the evidence". The sovereignty comment was just the sort of vague statement that you accuse us leavers of making. I could take you to task on this in the same way that I have taken you to task on many such posts you have made in here and in the main thread over the last couple of years. Sometimes you have been right. But on other occasions I have proved that your post was actually just your opinion, and the basis of that opinion was invariably your view that we have a Tory government who are liars and will never carry out their promises.

But I no longer make posts attempting to justify why I voted Brexit because, apart from being fed up repeating myself, there's just no point. If I see a post that is blatantly wrong I will sometimes pull it up, but I don't do that anywhere near as much as I used to. What I find myself doing more of these days is defending my right to have a point of view. I've never questioned anybody why they voted to remain. I've always assumed that they have a reason and that's good enough for me. And that would still have been the case had the country voted to remain. But sadly that is not reciprocated.

You will see in the main thread that GOT members voted Remain almost exactly 2:1. But that is not reflected in the numbers that post regularly in here which are probably closer to 20:1 or even 30:1. There is a reason for that Bruce, and that is leave voters are generally not welcome in here. I've even put micknick on ignore 3 times in the past to try and stop myself coming in here, and I shouldn't need to do that in an Everton supporters forum.
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@micknick
 
Barnfred 55 said:
I'm trying very hard not to get drawn into these conversations but when I read things like this I can't help myself.

Your first paragraph Bruce is your typical opening gambit. Said with such certainty that nobody can ever doubt it's validity, but the truth is there is very little substance behind it. For instance I believe you posted 1 report that concluded that free movement provided better results than controlled immigration. You may have posted more but I don't recall seeing it. That is hardly the same as "all the evidence".
Click to expand...

The Oxford Migration Observatory has a lot of reports on the topic, as does the Migration Advisory Committee who informed the government's own policy. They all say the same thing. Equally, I've done quite a bit of work in the past year with business schools around the world, and they've made a big song and dance about the way restrictive immigration policies damage the economy.

By contrast, I can't recall seeing any evidence to the contrary highlighting how controlled migration is a good thing, and especially highly prohibitive immigration? By all means point me in that direction, but most advocates for 'controlled' migration have just assumed its beneficial without providing any evidence.

Barnfred 55 said:
The sovereignty comment was just the sort of vague statement that you accuse us leavers of making. I could take you to task on this in the same way that I have taken you to task on many such posts you have made in here and in the main thread over the last couple of years. Sometimes you have been right. But on other occasions I have proved that your post was actually just your opinion, and the basis of that opinion was invariably your view that we have a Tory government who are liars and will never carry out their promises.
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I didn't go into any more detail because there was an ongoing exchange on the topic a few pages ago that covered it in quite some detail. I know you like to frequent these threads so assumed you'd read it, but apologies if not.

Barnfred 55 said:
But I no longer make posts attempting to justify why I voted Brexit because, apart from being fed up repeating myself, there's just no point. If I see a post that is blatantly wrong I will sometimes pull it up, but I don't do that anywhere near as much as I used to. What I find myself doing more of these days is defending my right to have a point of view. I've never questioned anybody why they voted to remain. I've always assumed that they have a reason and that's good enough for me. And that would still have been the case had the country voted to remain. But sadly that is not reciprocated.

You will see in the main thread that GOT members voted Remain almost exactly 2:1. But that is not reflected in the numbers that post regularly in here which are probably closer to 20:1 or even 30:1. There is a reason for that Bruce, and that is leave voters are generally not welcome in here. I've even put micknick on ignore 3 times in the past to try and stop myself coming in here, and I shouldn't need to do that in an Everton supporters forum.
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I don't think people dispute others having a view, merely that they would like to provide some positivity in relation to Brexit. For instance, had Patel said "we're going to restrict migration, and are allocating £x million to help ensure the British population have the skills to do the job" or "we'll be providing £x million for R&D/deployment/tech tax cuts so technology can be invested in instead" then you could at least see that there was a plan in place, but instead it just smacks of dog whistling to appease the darker elements of our nature.
 
bluejim95 said:
Totally, plus the cost, if you can find someone to do the upskilling. I'm about to pick up a contract doing just that for over 500 notes per day for one on one training. They struggled to find anyone to travel outside of London.
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Don't get me wrong, there is a huge need to invest in skills at the moment, but this has existed for some time already, and the government really haven't done anything about, least of all in terms of adult education. The notion that they'll start now appears more in hope than expectation.
 
JEBUS_LIVES said:
And anti vaccination is not a health issue, otherwise it would likely be mandatory. It's a social issue because all the evidence indicates it is beneficial for your and the greater public good, but some people wrongly believe it to be harmful, so actually create a health problem.
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Still scratch my head as to why the MMR can't be given as three seperate vaccinations,just a thought.Sorry for drifting off topic.
 
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