This thread is for the benefits of Brexit, so some benefits would satisfy people. The passport, for instance. It's clear what is being lost, but aside from a new colour, not clear what's being gained. Do you know?
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This thread is for the benefits of Brexit, so some benefits would satisfy people. The passport, for instance. It's clear what is being lost, but aside from a new colour, not clear what's being gained. Do you know?
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
I know I don't give a toss what colour the passport is. And I think it was an own goal by the government to award the contract for making the passports to an overseas company.
But every reason ever given anywhere in this forum, by me or any other leave voter, has been systematically dismissed and, in many cases, ridiculed by your lot. So what's the point?. You don't want to listen to what we have to say anyway.
I told you a few weeks ago Bruce that I'd put a few thoughts together on how I would like things to pan out and how I believed they will, but having seen the hammering people in here are still getting I just don't see the point in taking the time and effort.
Fair dos.
Shevin Keedy
Player Valuation: £35m
So we are at a stalemate then. The leavers have given their benefits, the remainers have rejected them. Now what?
roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
More like been asked to clarify and back up the sound bites.
It is disappointing, for the purposes of a debate, when a viewpoint is presented then the inevitable calls for evidence or counter point is presented; it is considered to be dismissive or 'abusive'.
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
Yarrgh
Player Valuation: £80m
Not until those rights have been diluted/ removed that enough people don't have anything to lose and they're willing to fight for them again.
I think I've clarified my objections to those soundbites dozens of times on this and the main thread to be fair.
What's your point?
Imagine voting to put a big hole in peoples future, then crying it in when asked to account for yourself. Utter kopites these brexiteers
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
Yes you have Bruce to the extent that you are now ridiculing them. That's the point I was making to Roydo.
It doesn't help that the narrative has shifted towards one of 'short-term pain, but long-term gain'. Firstly, I'm 99% certain that not only did no Brexit campaigner suggest this would be the case in the slightest, and equally no one on here suggested that would be the case either, and this has only flipped because those campaigning for it have got to take account for their actions now and are trying to wriggle out of it (so their supporters are doing likewise and trying to change history). Secondly, by saying the gains will be many years hence (or 50 years in Mogg's case), then it absolves them of any responsibility for things whatsoever, as the good times are always just around the corner. That's a major cop out, and leads to understandable frustration among those so often accused of not getting behind the project.
Because it doesn't really hold up to any scrutiny. When you want to control migration despite all the evidence showing that this leads to worse outcomes than not doing so, it invites ridicule. When you wish to take back sovereignty despite evidence showing that Britain got its way the vast majority of times in the EU (and especially when we are almost certain to have to cede ground on various things in any partnership with the US), then that invites ridicule.
I've no doubt that gentleman that killed himself from the flat earth society believed the earth was flat, but that doesn't make it so, yet we're in a situation where simply believing something to be so is giving the same credibility of having actual evidence that it is. You and I spoke briefly about this in relation to the new passport, as while it's very clear what rights are lost by the new passport, the only thing that's clear we're gaining is one of a different colour. That so many Brexit supporters (not on here I don't believe) are creaming themselves over that situation is nothing short of ridiculous.
Had Johnson come out and said, "here is our nice new blue passport, we've also negotiated visa free travel to xyz, you can use it to setup a business in abc..." and so on, then I'm not sure many would argue too much. Instead, we just have to marvel at its blue'ness.
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