Current Affairs The benefits of Brexit Page

[Bruce Wayne]

Its the sort of info you could get hold of easier than me, but is there any data/projections on how many EU workers have registered to stay, post D Day?

I don't know off hand, but heard an interview with the Czechs last week (or the week before), and they estimated that of the 100,000 or so Czechs in the country, just 1/3 have registered for settled status. I've no idea if that's representative of other nations or not.

 

[edge]

How will it do that? There are 41,000 unfilled nursing vacancies at the moment (or 10% of the entire nursing workforce if you prefer). In social care, you can probably double that. In no way, shape, or form is this a case of foreign nurses 'taking jobs' and pushing down wages. No way whatsoever.

Pay a decent wage and train more , we have had a 20% drop in apprentice training since 2004.
Have a bit of faith in are young people and train them for a future in a job with a decent wage.
Instead of taking the easy option of cheap foreign labour, that leaves there home nations facing shortages due to not being able to offer wages to retain them.
The nurses bursary should go up to attract people into the job.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Pay a decent wage and train more , we have had a 20%
Drop in apprentice training since 2004.
Have a bit of faith in are young people and train them for a future in a job with a decent wage.
Instead of taking the easy option of cheap foreign labour, that leaves there home nations facing shortages due to not being able to offer wages to retain them.
the nurses bursary should go up to attract people into the job.

The NHS pay a standard wage. They don't pay a forens wage and a native wage. There's not some Premier League premium at work here. There's a skills shortage of around 100,000 in the NHS.

 

[edge]

The NHS pay a standard wage. They don't pay a forens wage and a native wage. There's not some Premier League premium at work here. There's a skills shortage of around 100,000 in the NHS.

Unfortunately they take the options open to them ,
spend years training people or the cheaper option of ready made nurse from Eastern Europe or the Philippines, who have already got the training and therefore less expensive .
There is the moral side of it as well , we shouldn't just be robbing poorer countries of these people as they have shortages of there own.
It's been a lack of investment in are own people that has caused this to happen.
About time we stopped taking the easy way and invested in are young people and give them opportunities and the environment to prosper in these fields
The NHS has loads of problems and genuinely needs looking at from top to bottom.

 

[roydo]

cheaper option of ready made nurse from Eastern Europe or the Philippines, who have already got the training and therefore less expensive .

Easy assumption that. My observation following my recent brush with the NHS is more nuanced. I didnt make a list, but in the ICU, (higher level of training than wards), the nurses were probably 50/50 Brit/EU. One was ex military, who got bored so upskilled, many of the EU ones moved to the UK with partners, many who were in more senior positions in the NHS, some had studied medicine in the UK, and stayed.

As our treatment got less serious or intensive, the balance between UK and non UK staff was marked. More like 80/20 in favour of Brits.

And as it got beyond medical to diet and physio, we had one non Brit staff. (Kiwi, married a Brit).

Now it was one experience, over nearly 2 months though, in one hospital in a very cosmopolitan city with world class universities and hospitals. So it may have been a fluke. Dunno.

It was interesting watching the melting pot of humanity all doing the same thing; caring for fellow human beings.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Every time this gets bumped, I get excited to see one.

Disappointed as usual.

I've given a couple, albeit debatable ones, but at least I've tried.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Unfortunately they take the options open to them ,
spend years training people or the cheaper option of ready made nurse from Eastern Europe or the Philippines, who have already got the training and therefore less expensive .
There is the moral side of it as well , we shouldn't just be robbing poorer countries of these people as they have shortages of there own.
It's been a lack of investment in are own people that has caused this to happen.
About time we stopped taking the easy way and invested in are young people and give them opportunities and the environment to prosper in these fields
The NHS has loads of problems and genuinely needs looking at from top to bottom.

I think a big part of it is the removal of the bursary, coupled with a relatively low salary, a newly qualified nurse joins at a band 5 in the NHS (which according to the proposed UK immigration points system is low skilled worker) and difficult working environment.

It's not an easy job and one that doesn't really pay according to the difficulty.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

I think that's what it will come to. It's fairly obvious that the tories want to dismantle our care system saving them billions per year and force Joe public to take on the responsibility for providing care to the most vulnerable in our communities.

Various recent care acts depending what part of the kingdom you are in are more or less on that path, my authority has just pulled accountancy support for direct payments, of course private accountancy is not cheap, so now there is lots of unhappy citizens wanting to stampead to hand back financial responsibility of direct paymentsl to the local authority.
A side note direct payments are nefarious way of getting away from all sorts of employment health safety training even DBS etc. What people will end up with is a lump sum of monies that will afford basic care for the person needing support and it will be their responsibility. As we say at work 'managed decline'.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Easy assumption that. My observation following my recent brush with the NHS is more nuanced. I didnt make a list, but in the ICU, (higher level of training than wards), the nurses were probably 50/50 Brit/EU. One was ex military, who got bored so upskilled, many of the EU ones moved to the UK with partners, many who were in more senior positions in the NHS, some had studied medicine in the UK, and stayed.

As our treatment got less serious or intensive, the balance between UK and non UK staff was marked. More like 80/20 in favour of Brits.

And as it got beyond medical to diet and physio, we had one non Brit staff. (Kiwi, married a Brit).

Now it was one experience, over nearly 2 months though, in one hospital in a very cosmopolitan city with world class universities and hospitals. So it may have been a fluke. Dunno.

It was interesting watching the melting pot of humanity all doing the same thing; caring for fellow human beings.

Indeed, and my wife trained at King's college, so was in no way 'robbed' from Czech. Heck, the very notion is absurd, as though people are the property of a nation to be used like you would an old car.

 

[edge]

The NHS pay a standard wage. They don't pay a forens wage and a native wage. There's not some Premier League premium at work here. There's a skills shortage of around 100,000 in the NHS.

That figure is open for debate most of those vacancies are currently filled with short term contracts or agency staff,
Off the top of my head it's something around 90% filled
This way for doctors and nurses for example , how that's been allowed to happen I dont know,but that's another argument all together.

 

[roydo]

That figure is open for debate most of those vacancies are currently filled with short term contracts or agency staff,
Off the top of my head it's something around 90% filled
This way for doctors and nurses for example , but that's another argument all together.

It didnt feel under staffed when I was in the Bristol BRI. But folk have said repeatedly, the emergency side of the NHS is pretty well looked after; its the less sexy areas that maybe take the strain.

 

[Minimeister]

I think a big part of it is the removal of the bursary, coupled with a relatively low salary, a newly qualified nurse joins at a band 5 in the NHS (which according to the proposed UK immigration points system is low skilled worker) and difficult working environment.

It's not an easy job and one that doesn't really pay according to the difficulty.

For a band 5 job you would be expected to have a degree. Says a lot about degrees then...

 

[JimmyJeffers]

It didnt feel under staffed when I was in the Bristol BRI. But folk have said repeatedly, the emergency side of the NHS is pretty well looked after; its the less sexy areas that maybe take the strain.

Never really feel comfortable commenting about the NHS as it’s such a vast institution and it’s something I don’t really know that much about. Most mainstream articles appear heavily polemicised that’s it’s difficult to ascertain what the real state of affairs are. I do know it’s a nightmare to get a GP appointment these days but was that a Tory initiative or down to separate institutions?

 

[Khalekan]

 

[roydo]

Never really feel comfortable commenting about the NHS as it’s such a vast institution and it’s something I don’t really know that much about. Most mainstream articles appear heavily polemicised that’s it’s difficult to ascertain what the real state of affairs are. I do know it’s a nightmare to get a GP appointment these days but was that a Tory initiative or down to separate institutions?

I dont know mate. I got a GP appointment dead easy the other month. Its a nightmare to get an appointment with "your" GP, but otherwise, not so bad. Phone in the early afternoon would be my tip.