Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

[SerenityNigh]

Ahh, so you're an advocate of the "hey, I've just stopped a random car in a country where the driver is in all likelihood packing - best waltz over to the drivers door singing a song and hope for the best" approach.

Not what I'd go for, but hey ho.

Well, I've lived here nearly 40 years and driven a car more than half of them and never been shot, so yeah I probably would.

 

[Tubey]

Resisting arrest... Fighting a cop... Tubey can explain why he deserves the execution he'll get.

And he could have easily and justifiably been shot - he got lucky he wasn't. Point is?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Resisting arrest... Fighting a cop... Tubey can explain why he deserves the execution he'll get.

So we're meant to be surprised that there is one instance that didn't result in a police officer shooting someone?

Another example of media proliferation...

Did that fella have a gun?

 

[Tubey]

Well, I've lived here nearly 40 years and driven a car more than half of them and never been shot, so yeah I probably would.

Eh??? Again, what the hell is the relevance?

 

[Aqui1a]

So we're meant to be surprised that there is one instance that didn't result in a police officer shooting someone?

Another example of media proliferation...

Did that fella have a gun?

One instance :') Look at the stats

 

[GrandOldTeam]

One instance :') Look at the stats

What stats?

Is there a stat out there saying every single suspect who resisted arrest got shot?

 

[Aqui1a]

What stats?

Is there a stat out there saying every single suspect who resisted arrest got shot?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men

 

[Tubey]

One instance :') Look at the stats

Perhaps the stats show that social inequality plays a much larger role in these incidents than the perceived racism of the cops, and that those killed tend to be of a lesser intellect and lower class?

Or is it just easier to yell "racist" and start a hashtag on Twitter?

 

[Aqui1a]

Perhaps the stats show that social inequality plays a much larger role in these incidents than the perceived racism of the cops, and that those killed tend to be of a lesser intellect and lower class?

Or is it just easier to yell "racist" and start a hashtag on Twitter?

So you're willing to accept systematic racism and inequality on the whole, but you instinctively disregard the statistics that indicate systematic racism within the US police force?

Lesser intellect wtf?

"Or is it just easier to yell "racist" and start a hashtag on Twitter?" LoL

 

[joey_macmo]

After disclosing he had a weapon.

Also, licence and registration is standard and the cop would have expected glove compartment, not pocket. Again, we don't see how it happened, but the assumption is the cop would have said "hands away" and the guy hasn't done it quick enough.

But no, instead the cop is automatically a racist murderer.

so he's doing something he's been asked to do so its not a "random" action is it that's pretty obvious from the off

Stop putting words in my mouth re. "Racist murderer" thank you very much.

 

[Tubey]

So you're willing to accept systematic racism and inequality on the whole, but you instinctively disregard the statistics that indicate systematic racism within the US police force?

Lesser intellect wtf?

"Or is it just easier to yell "racist" and start a hashtag on Twitter?" LoL

Yes, American society hasn't addressed the class issues with minorities. That's different from saying the police are inherently racist and are executing blacks. They are two separate issues.

Here's a stat:

POPULATION:

13% Black
64% White

PRISON POPULATION:

39% White
40% Black

So this means a few things. First, blacks commit more crime that is prosecuted, as a result of committing more crime and being more heavily policed. Second, most of those crimes are committed by people of low wealth and education.

So it's hardly a surprise if the killings by police correlate almost exactly with the percentages of the prison population, because black people are pulled over more often/involved in more crimes that result in police action than whites.

So there's an obvious two pronged problem. One, it's a country that allows everyone and anyone access to guns regardless of their capability to actually own one responsibly. And two, blacks aren't given the same opportunities in life in the USA, meaning they are more readily drawn to crime and dangerous activity.

See, that's called a nuanced discussion, instead of screaming "police are racist" because they've protected themselves in a perceived moment of danger whilst doing a very difficult and dangerous job.

 

[SerenityNigh]

So we're meant to be surprised that there is one instance that didn't result in a police officer shooting someone?

Another example of media proliferation...

Did that fella have a gun?

There are actually very few blacks in America (about 1 in 5, if that much). No doubt these circumstances happen with non black Americans, but where is the evidence that there are 4 deaths by cop for every 1 death of a black man? The incidences are disproportionate, and if so, then why? Either black men are violent animals, as some suggest, or cops treat them like violent animals.

Maybe the answer is more subtle (let's hope so) but these seem more obvious.

 

[RAFUH]

After disclosing he had a weapon.

Also, licence and registration is standard and the cop would have expected glove compartment, not pocket. Again, we don't see how it happened, but the assumption is the cop would have said "hands away" and the guy hasn't done it quick enough.

But no, instead the cop is automatically a racist murderer.

Registration likely is in glove box, but no one keeps their license there.
People will have it in their wallet which for man will mean it is in a pocket.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men

Thanks.

Here is another;



You can crunch the numbers and % to meet whatever agenda...

I've done countless journals on BMEs - the latest - 'Critically evaluate continued claims that the police service in this country is characterised by an internal culture of exclusion and discrimination against BME officers'

I think our justice system does treat BMEs differently (conviction rates in particular) - but I don't think race is the crux of the issue with American police/gun control.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Yes, American society hasn't addressed the class issues with minorities. That's different from saying the police are inherently racist and are executing blacks. They are two separate issues.

Here's a stat:

POPULATION:

13% Black
64% White

PRISON POPULATION:

39% White
40% Black

So this means a few things. First, blacks commit more crime that is prosecuted, as a result of committing more crime and being more heavily policed. Second, most of those crimes are committed by people of low wealth and education.

So it's hardly a surprise if the killings by police correlate almost exactly with the percentages of the prison population, because black people are pulled over more often/involved in more crimes that result in police action than whites.

So there's an obvious two pronged problem. One, it's a country that allows everyone and anyone access to guns regardless of their capability to actually own one responsibly. And two, blacks aren't given the same opportunities in life in the USA, meaning they are more readily drawn to crime and dangerous activity.

See, that's called a nuanced discussion, instead of screaming "police are racist" because they've protected themselves in a perceived moment of danger whilst doing a very difficult and dangerous job.

Mate. Can't go through all this now, but you might want to do some reading (or ask Damo to graph it for you).

TL;DR--blacks go to jail more because whites put them there

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/0...ecomes-blunt-spokesman-for-death-penalty.html