Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 28206
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
See post above, put yourself in the police officers shoes instead of immediately thinking it is a hate crime.

I haven't said anything about it being a hate crime but it seems bewildering to me. I mean the shop owner called them to his store because some bloke was threatening customers with a gun, and that someone was not the person they ended up shooting, so they appear quite happy to have left someone clearly threatening people with a gun run loose whilst apprehending this other random bloke.

I wouldn't make the leap to suggest their actions were racially motivated, but it does appear incompetence on an enormous scale.

There is the problem.

It really doesn't matter - words don't matter.

When life can be taken in seconds, words don't matter.

They have a gun, and that makes the whole situation hit another level.

If that person, with the gun, doesn't follow instruction, or resists arrest - the police officer than has a decision to make. I'm sure the vast majority don't end up shooting, but a few inevitably will.

It's a direct consequence of their gun culture, rather than "cops going out killin' all the blacks"

As above, I haven't brought race into this, it just seems baffling for an organisation who are there to protect people to come across so badly. I mean for all we know the shop he was outside could sell guns and he'd just bought one legally. Are we supposed to think that this is a situation the police shouldn't be trained to diffuse? It may confuse the heck out of us but this is their country, it's what's normal. Why aren't they better at handling it?
 
I haven't said anything about it being a hate crime but it seems bewildering to me. I mean the shop owner called them to his store because some bloke was threatening customers with a gun, and that someone was not the person they ended up shooting, so they appear quite happy to have left someone clearly threatening people with a gun run loose whilst apprehending this other random bloke.

I wouldn't make the leap to suggest their actions were racially motivated, but it does appear incompetence on an enormous scale.



As above, I haven't brought race into this, it just seems baffling for an organisation who are there to protect people to come across so badly. I mean for all we know the shop he was outside could sell guns and he'd just bought one legally. Are we supposed to think that this is a situation the police shouldn't be trained to diffuse? It may confuse the heck out of us but this is their country, it's what's normal. Why aren't they better at handling it?

How is it incompetent? It doesn't matter if it's the wrong guy - the guy was told to go to ground in the first incident and didn't. He had several chances to avoid being shot, didn't take any of them.

I cannot for the life of me see what the police have done wrong in any scenario other than be in a country where guns are prevalent and having an obvious need to preserve their own life at the first sign of risk as a result.
 
So if stopped by a copper and asked do you have a gun and is it licensed, what do you say? What do the police expect someone to say in such a circumstance?

It just seems baffling to me. I mean the police know that people are legally allowed to have a gun, so you'd think that training would be heavily geared around dealing with such folks without having to shoot them at the first sign, or is that literally the only recourse here?

You're supposed to tell them where it is, and they're supposed to ask.
 
Doesn't show that part at all, but it doesn't look like he's resisted at all. What he has done is made a move for his pocket or whatever and it looks like the cop hasn't expected it after being told he's carrying a concealed weapon.

The cop sounds genuinely gutted too, which people are ignoring.

Again, it's a job where you're expected to control a population that could shoot you in the head in 2 seconds flat. Applying idealistic nonsense to such a situation is abysmal logic. As Dan says above, it's all about putting yourself in the shoes of the officer, and in these two situations, if the guy doesn't resist arrest or doesn't make a sudden move for his pocket, they aren't shot.

Or, a loved one.

It's difficult for most of us to understand, but you can see how many police officers (&dogs!) are shot and killed here;

https://www.odmp.org/

Example from the other week;

https://www.odmp.org/officer/22881-deputy-sheriff-david-francis-michel-jr

Deputy Sheriff David Michel was shot and killed while making a subject stop near the intersection of Manhattan Boulevard and Ascot Road, in Harvey.

A struggle ensued during the stop and the subject was able to pull a handgun from his waistband. He opened fire on Deputy Michel, striking him several times, and continued to shoot at him after he fell to the ground. Deputy Michel was transported to a local hospital where he succumbed to his wounds.4

The subject fled the area on foot but was taken into custody a short time later.

This fella was 50, served for 9 years.

The suspect/murderer, was black. 19.

If the cop had shot him/killed him in that struggle, he'd be facing widespread media backlash...

American police would benefit from permanent body cameras.
 
There is the problem.

It really doesn't matter - words don't matter.

When life can be taken in seconds, words don't matter.

They have a gun, and that makes the whole situation hit another level. Actions take precedent over words.

If that person, with the gun, doesn't follow instruction, or resists arrest - the police officer than has a decision to make. I'm sure the vast majority don't end up shooting, but a few inevitably will.

It's a direct consequence of their gun culture, rather than "cops going out killin' all the blacks"

Better trained officers will go a long way to fixing this problem.
 
What would that better training be? Let the suspect get the gun and point it at you before responding?

Knowing the difference between reaching for his wallet and reaching for a gun. Maybe waiting to see a gun before shooting? Maybe knowing how to use words to diffuse a situation before you turn the citizen into a victim because his arm twitched or moved too far left. Let's not forget that in every one of these circumstances, the cops are in power. They're only using that power to protect themselves, not the citizen.
 
How is it incompetent? It doesn't matter if it's the wrong guy - the guy was told to go to ground in the first incident and didn't. He had several chances to avoid being shot, didn't take any of them.

I cannot for the life of me see what the police have done wrong in any scenario other than be in a country where guns are prevalent and having an obvious need to preserve their own life at the first sign of risk as a result.

Well for a start there's some other bloke running around with a gun that they have already been told is a menace, but they choose to ignore this person and focus on a random bloke selling music who they end up shooting to death. That's pretty darn incompetent if you ask me.
 
Knowing the difference between reaching for his wallet and reaching for a gun. Maybe waiting to see a gun before shooting? Maybe knowing how to use words to diffuse a situation before you turn the citizen into a victim because his arm twitched or moved too far left. Let's not forget that in every one of these circumstances, the cops are in power. They're only using that power to protect themselves, not the citizen.

And what difference is that mate?

Also, what words diffuse a situation in the 2 seconds it takes to pull a gun out and pull the trigger?

Again, sorry, but idealistic nonsense. One common denominator in this, and it's not that they were black - it's that they were carrying guns.
 
Well for a start there's some other bloke running around with a gun that they have already been told is a menace, but they choose to ignore this person and focus on a random bloke selling music who they end up shooting to death. That's pretty darn incompetent if you ask me.

Again, secondary situation. What did they do that was incompetent once they'd decided this guy was a suspect and asked him to get to ground?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top