Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

[TX Bill]

Watched a programme on racial hatred in the US last night, and despite events like the church shooting in Charleston, the black community still viewed the police as their biggest threat.

There was footage of one incident in which a mother has called the police to help escort her son to a mental facility and they end up shooting him dead on his doorstep. For having a screwdriver. In another one an officer shoots a fleeing man in the back and then plants his tazer next to the body to try and make it look like self defence.

When even the people charged with protecting the community are gunning people down, there's little hope for the US to make much progress on the firearms issue.

We already have strict laws in place regarding the purchase of a firearm so how do YOU define progress on the "firearm issue?" We have MILLIONS of law abiding citizens who legally and lawfully own a firearm and have never caused a problem. So what progress can be made without infringing on their rights?

As someone said. We own over 200 million guns and 12 trillion rounds of ammo. If we were a problem, you'd know it.

 

[TX Bill]

With respect Bill.... it was usually you who locked them when you didn't agree with an opinion that differed from your own hahahaha

Look mate. You'd lock em too when 90% of the posters have zero concept of reality in this country.

Those 90% have no interest in rational debate but rather shout "BAN GUNS" at the top of their lungs knowing full well that will NEVER happen. Understood?

With respect of course.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Timothy McVeigh likes this post.

Fortunately, it's much harder to build a bomb with store-bought fertilizer than it was 20 years again. Some things we've learned, others maybe not.

 

[SerenityNigh]

What's your view on this latest tragedy Bill? And how does it stand in the wider context of gun ownership?

Quit trying to push this back into being a calm, reasoned discussion. Actually, quite looking forward to Tex's opinion, since he's sincerely honest and Mezz is too quiet on these issues, but not sure he'd respond to my inquiry since I called him a nugget.

 

[TX Bill]

Fortunately, it's much harder to build a bomb with store-bought fertilizer than it was 20 years again. Some things we've learned, others maybe not.

Well there are several issues being conveniently overlooked which prevents future learning. Willful or otherwise because those issues don't fit a narrative.

I've always, always been willing to discuss this topic with anyone who's been willing to be rational about it rather than just bang on about simplistic measures that have zero hope of ever being implemented in the USA.

 

[TX Bill]

What's your view on this latest tragedy Bill? And how does it stand in the wider context of gun ownership?

What do you mean "What's my view?" It's a horrible event. Horrible.

Wider context of gun ownership? You've been on here awhile Esk so surely my view on legally permitted firearms ownership can't be a surprise to you.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Well there are several issues being conveniently overlooked which prevents future learning. Willful or otherwise because those issues don't fit a narrative.

I've always, always been willing to discuss this topic with anyone who's been willing to be rational about it rather than just bang on about simplistic measures that have zero hope of ever being implemented in the USA.

Issues are extremely complex. We're probably from similar backgrounds but sit on different sides of the fence now. Would be interested in your thoughts; to me certainly seems like there's a cultural problem and a recognition problem. No chance of a wholesale gun ban happening short of a huge cultural shift, but I'd like to see limitations on types of weapons, size of magazines and clips, and types of ammo available to start. I'd also like to see a national registry and serious penalties for gun trafficking. But I know not everyone agrees with me on that.

 

[The Esk]

I've always, always been willing to discuss this topic with anyone who's been willing to be rational about it rather than just bang on about simplistic measures that have zero hope of ever being implemented in the USA.

Is it your view that there will never be a day when it is not the "right" of a US citizen to own a firearm?

Because, and forgive me as a non-American, it seems to me that eventually after God knows how many other mass killings someone will have the political courage to take on the NRA and all those subservient politicians who bow to the lobby dollar and over time force change.

However that could happen now and save the lives of countless innocents, it just takes the courage to say enough is enough, and perhaps it starts with reform rather than an outright ban, but reform is inevitable Bill, one day, sooner or later. It may as well be sooner and save the lives of innocents.

 

[tommye]

I wonder how many lives have been needlessly taken by gun toting loonballs since the start of this thread.


God bless America.

 

[TX Bill]

Issues are extremely complex. We're probably from similar backgrounds but sit on different sides of the fence now. Would be interested in your thoughts; to me certainly seems like there's a cultural problem and a recognition problem. No chance of a wholesale gun ban happening short of a huge cultural shift, but I'd like to see limitations on types of weapons, size of magazines and clips, and types of ammo available to start. I'd also like to see a national registry and serious penalties for gun trafficking. But I know not everyone agrees with me on that.

Ok...shocker.

I'm actually ok with magazine and clips sizes being reduced.

Now that said, if I'm hell bent on causing destruction, I can preload multiple clips on my Browning 9MM and still do the same damage. And I believe that clip holds only 9. So where does it stop? 30? 15? 9? 1? But I'm perfectly fine with elimination of 30 round clips. How you get them out of the population is another matter.

National registry is a no go because I have the right to purchase and own without the government looking over me and it does nothing to deter a criminal who purchases a weapon through illegal means. All it does is potentially put law abiding citizens in this country under surveillance and that's a no no.

Illegal gun trafficking penalties made much stiffer? Absolutely. But we aren't doing a very good job of enforcement of current laws on the books.

Hope this answers your points above.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Issues are extremely complex. We're probably from similar backgrounds but sit on different sides of the fence now. Would be interested in your thoughts; to me certainly seems like there's a cultural problem and a recognition problem. No chance of a wholesale gun ban happening short of a huge cultural shift, but I'd like to see limitations on types of weapons, size of magazines and clips, and types of ammo available to start. I'd also like to see a national registry and serious penalties for gun trafficking. But I know not everyone agrees with me on that.

I'd also like to see the end of open carry laws and more restrictions on where you can carry (open or concealed), including a full ban on any type of school. I'm not at all fan of the Texas ruling allowing campus carry.

 

[TX Bill]

Is it your view that there will never be a day when it is not the "right" of a US citizen to own a firearm?

Because, and forgive me as a non-American, it seems to me that eventually after God knows how many other mass killings someone will have the political courage to take on the NRA and all those subservient politicians who bow to the lobby dollar and over time force change.

However that could happen now and save the lives of countless innocents, it just takes the courage to say enough is enough, and perhaps it starts with reform rather than an outright ban, but reform is inevitable Bill, one day, sooner or later. It may as well be sooner and save the lives of innocents.

Yes Esk. That's my view. I posted this earlier but if you missed it, please take a moment and read this piece on why an outright ban will never happen:

http://opinion.injo.com/2015/12/251122-kurt-liberal-gun-grab-why-fail/

 

[SerenityNigh]

Ok...shocker.

I'm actually ok with magazine and clips sizes being reduced.

Now that said, if I'm hell bent on causing destruction, I can preload multiple clips on my Browning 9MM and still do the same damage. And I believe that clip holds only 9. So where does it stop? 30? 15? 9? 1? But I'm perfectly fine with elimination of 30 round clips. How you get them out of the population is another matter.

National registry is a no go because I have the right to purchase and own without the government looking over me and it does nothing to deter a criminal who purchases a weapon through illegal means. All it does is potentially put law abiding citizens in this country under surveillance and that's a no no.

Illegal gun trafficking penalties made much stiffer? Absolutely. But we aren't doing a very good job of enforcement of current laws on the books.

Hope this answers your points above.

Understood, but we register nearly everything else without much restriction (just have to pay taxes on most of it). I don't foresee any restrictions on ownership due to registration, but I think some of that rhetoric is fear mongering to begin.

 

[The Esk]

Yes Esk. That's my view. I posted this earlier but if you missed it, please take a moment and read this piece on why an outright ban will never happen:

http://opinion.injo.com/2015/12/251122-kurt-liberal-gun-grab-why-fail/

I read it and as a moderator I thought it not sensible to give an opinion on it.

 

[TX Bill]

I'd also like to see the end of open carry laws and more restrictions on where you can carry (open or concealed), including a full ban on any type of school. I'm not at all fan of the Texas ruling allowing campus carry.

And that's where we differ. Gun free zone insure only one thing. Someone bent on doing harm in one of those zones will be guaranteed zero resistance in that zone.

There are already several restrictions on where you can concealed carry, yes, even in Texas.