Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

[toffee82]

Bro that's not a good argument. The UK doesn't have a gun culture like the USA and it never did. Do you seriously expect everybody to surrender their weapons because Biden said so?

Do you even know what the word amendment means?

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Bro that's not a good argument. The UK doesn't have a gun culture like the USA and it never did. Do you seriously expect everybody to surrender their weapons because Biden said so?

No, I expect people to surrender their weapons because innocent people are being murdered every day. Take away the guns and those kids are still alive

No one needs guns, it’s a myth that you do

 

[PhilM]

Err, pretty sure that risk is in the job description.

Unlike teachers who are frequently casualties in school shootings but still get between gunmen and their students.

Uvalde teachers shielded children while gunman was shooting at them, relatives told

Police tell relatives that Irma Garcia and Eva Mireles died protecting their students from the gunman who burst into their classroom, barricaded the doors and opened fire with a semi-automatic rifle.

www.abc.net.au

Client Challenge

www.newstimes.com

A football coach who shielded students from the Florida shooter died as he lived -- by putting himself second | CNN

Football coach Aaron Feis threw himself in front of students as bullets hailed down Wednesday at his alma mater, Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida.

www.cnn.com

It definitely is the cops job: a core principle is to protect life. If you take the oath, it’s your responsibility to do so. Look at PC Keith Palmer and so many others.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

This thread is bar far the saddest on GOT for me reading about repeated school shootings. How callous are the lawmakers when nothing ever really change?
So much to admire about the U.S. but this corrupt/ inept attitude to children dying needs to end.

See it as a lesson when a free market is to free and too powerful... And why regulation will always be needed.

 

[Deleted member 48881]

An American friend wrote this on a fb comment

''
There is no solution. I'm in favor of stricter background checks and criteria for the purchase of guns. I'm in favor of banning high capacity assault weapons.

But I am enough of a realist to understand that the prevention of mass gun violence in the US is not possible without confiscation the scale of which is literally impossible and undesirable for our civil liberties. I am not a gun owner, but I do not need a representative of the state trolling through my possessions looking for illegal weapons. Nor would the American people stand for such a thing, and for good reason.''

thoughts?

 

[thirdmantackle]

An American friend wrote this on a fb comment

''
There is no solution. I'm in favor of stricter background checks and criteria for the purchase of guns. I'm in favor of banning high capacity assault weapons.

But I am enough of a realist to understand that the prevention of mass gun violence in the US is not possible without confiscation the scale of which is literally impossible and undesirable for our civil liberties. I am not a gun owner, but I do not need a representative of the state trolling through my possessions looking for illegal weapons. Nor would the American people stand for such a thing, and for good reason.''

thoughts?

Knowing the mindset of Americans its probably true.

Still though, proper background checks- the kid couldn't but a beer but could buy an assault rifle?
Also a gun amnesty might be needed- hand in your guns freely. Clearly having high levels of gun ownership doesn't mean a safer society.

 

[Amw79]

An American friend wrote this on a fb comment

''
There is no solution. I'm in favor of stricter background checks and criteria for the purchase of guns. I'm in favor of banning high capacity assault weapons.

But I am enough of a realist to understand that the prevention of mass gun violence in the US is not possible without confiscation the scale of which is literally impossible and undesirable for our civil liberties. I am not a gun owner, but I do not need a representative of the state trolling through my possessions looking for illegal weapons. Nor would the American people stand for such a thing, and for good reason.''

thoughts?

They’ve said there’s no solution, and then proposed 2 things that could potentially have some impact.

They’re saying the aim is the “prevention of mass gun violence”, but maybe a better aim would be the reduction of mass gun violence.

The arguments on this topic always seem to be folk saying ‘we should do x’, then the other side saying. ‘x won’t completely solve the problem, so we shouldn’t do x’.

It would be nice to see the US at least try something, but realistically I don’t think it will happen.

 

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

Taking away guns will lead to even more tragedy ?!?!
More than 2 mass shootings a day? More than 30 school shootings in 6 months?

Mate, take away guns and those people don’t die

I think you are massively oversimplifying it though.

'Taking away guns' isn't something that is likely to ever happen in America. Even if you did manage to ban them, there are 400 million guns in America, criminals and psychopaths would still have access to guns.

Guns are a force equalizer.

Someone posted earlier the way Canada do it, that seems totally sensible to me. You can still own guns, your rights aren't infringed, but the checks are much more rigorous. I think this is the best we can hope for in America, a culture where seemingly guns are about as ingrained as a cup of tea here.

 

[Chewbacca]

Why wouldn't I know?

Because you seem a bit thick?

 

[Amw79]

I think you are massively oversimplifying it though.

'Taking away guns' isn't something that is likely to ever happen in America. Even if you did manage to ban them, there are 400 million guns in America, criminals and psychopaths would still have access to guns.

Guns are a force equalizer.

Someone posted earlier the way Canada do it, that seems totally sensible to me. You can still own guns, your rights aren't infringed, but the checks are much more rigorous. I think this is the best we can hope for in America, a culture where seemingly guns are about as ingrained as a cup of tea here.

This is about the best argument for Gun ownership in the US, in my opinion.

In a country with 400m guns, it’s reasonable for a 5ft tall woman living on her own to think a gun is her best bet at defence.

The 2nd amendment argument is a red herring for me, as it is able to be changed/updated, if the will is there.

Making them harder to get. Making them more expensive to get. Building in waiting times. Restricting the types of firearms available. Mandatory training and range practice. Coming down hard on illegal and unregistered firearms.

All these would potentially have some impact.

Also a big fan of Chris Rock’s position on “bullet control”.

 

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

This is about the best argument for Gun ownership in the US, in my opinion.

In a country with 400m guns, it’s reasonable for a 5ft tall woman living on her own to think a gun is her best bet at defence.

The 2nd amendment argument is a red herring for me, as it is able to be changed/updated, if the will is there.

Making them harder to get. Making them more expensive to get. Building in waiting times. Restricting the types of firearms available. Mandatory training and range practice. Coming down hard on illegal and unregistered firearms.

All these would potentially have some impact.

Also a big fan of Chris Rock’s position on “bullet control”.

Exactly.

Haha that is pretty funny

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Knowing the mindset of Americans its probably true.

Still though, proper background checks- the kid couldn't but a beer but could buy an assault rifle?
Also a gun amnesty might be needed- hand in your guns freely. Clearly having high levels of gun ownership doesn't mean a safer society.

It is their mindset and it is so rigid and deep that they cannot see what the rest of the world can see

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

 

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

It is their mindset and it is so rigid and deep that they cannot see what the rest of the world can see

It's not as clear cut as you make it out though. I am sure there are a lot of people from a lot of different countries that envy the right to bear arms.

We have seen recently many civilians in Ukraine take up arms and fight against a tyrannical invasion of their homeland, to do this they needed guns. Would Putin have gone to war if he knew behind every door was an AK47?

The Nazi gun laws in 1938 specifically prohibited Jews from owning firearms in contrast to relatively relaxed laws to the 'law abiding german' and we know what happened there.

This is not to definitively say, Putin wouldn't have invaded, or the holocaust wouldn't have happened, we can't know this answer, but I don't think it is a stretch to say it made it easier.

Even Karl Marx argued that the working class should not be disarmed.

I believe the checks and regulations need to be much tighter in the US (similar to how Canada does it) and it is crazy to me you can't buy a pint at 18 but can buy a gun, I just think there is much more to it than just 'ban the guns' its a very complicated issue.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

It's not as clear cut as you make it out though. I am sure there are a lot of people from a lot of different countries that envy the right to bear arms.

We have seen recently many civilians in Ukraine take up arms and fight against a tyrannical invasion of their homeland, to do this they needed guns. Would Putin have gone to war if he knew behind every door was an AK47?

The Nazi gun laws in 1938 specifically prohibited Jews from owning firearms in contrast to relatively relaxed laws to the 'law abiding german' and we know what happened there.

This is not to definitively say, Putin wouldn't have invaded, or the holocaust wouldn't have happened, we can't know this answer, but I don't think it is a stretch to say it made it easier.

Even Karl Marx argued that the working class should not be disarmed.

I believe the checks and regulations need to be much tighter in the US (similar to how Canada does it) and it is crazy to me you can't buy a pint at 18 but can buy a gun, I just think there is much more to it than just 'ban the guns' its a very complicated issue.

I am sure they would but you have to question WHY and what sort of person are they. No sensible peace loving human wants or needs a gun. The Ukraine example is not relevant, they are at war. Carrying guns is for tits, no more, no less.