How similar are dummy rounds and live rounds to look at? Surely even if live rounds had been placed in a dummy round box they would be identifiable for an armourer to recognize when loading?
Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread
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My understanding is that dummy rounds should have a visible hole in the side, to indicate that they don’t have gunpowder in, even though they do have a projectile.
You’d think either the armourer or the assistant director should have seen it before it was passed over as ‘cold’.
I'm curious to know if they're referring to actual 'dummy' rounds or blanks and what was the rationale for whatever they chose, because it all seems 'wrong'.
A dummy round will have a bullet, either round or tipped, and a cartridge like standard ammunition, but there is no powder for firing - it releases no gas / no recoil.
Usually, the tip should be brightly coloured (orange) or it will have hole in if they want to look authentic for filming. These could be mistaken in very rare cases.
However, you'd expect an armourer to know the difference due to sight and weight. Worse, why load dummy rounds unless you're filming the actual loading?
Then, it wouldn't cause recoil or a muzzle flash needed for a scene. A blank round has no bullet - it's a combined jacket and an open nose to allow release.
But, if you're going to use blanks you wouldn't be stood near anyway? Any decent safety specialist would be at a distance, out of line of sight or protected.
The whole thing sounds very, very odd because if it was mean to be a 'cold gun' (a dummy) and they didn't film loading it should have been obvious.
Seems to be "dummies". Leaving the guns unattended in socks for about two hours after loading seems pretty inexcusable tbh.
Lawyers for ‘Rust’ Armorer Say Gun Was Briefly Unattended Before Shooting
The weapon handed to Alec Baldwin was left on a tray for several minutes, said the lawyers. Earlier, they had said it had been unattended for hours.
They raised the issue in appearances on television and in an interview with The New York Times in which they suggested that the accessibility of the gun made it possible that it could have been tampered with before the fatal shooting. But they acknowledged there is no evidence at this point that establishes foul play.
The gun left on the tray had been loaded with six dummy rounds by the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, who took the prop ammunition from a box labeled “dummies,” said one of her lawyers, Jason Bowles. Dummy rounds contain no gunpowder and are used to resemble bullets on camera.
At about 11 a.m. on Oct. 21, Ms. Gutierrez-Reed, 24, loaded three firearms that were going to be used later that afternoon during a filming session, including the .45 Long Colt, her other lawyer, Robert Gorence, said. She then left the guns encased in socks to prevent passers-by from handling them and later went on a lunch break, leaving them unattended, he said.
It raises even more questions regarding why she/they pre-loaded dummy rounds unless later in the shot they're going to open the cylinder and show rounds.Seems to be "dummies". Leaving the guns unattended in socks for about two hours after loading seems pretty inexcusable tbh.
The lawyers for the armorer on the film “Rust” — who has been under scrutiny since Alec Baldwin fatally shot the movie’s cinematographer with a gun that was not supposed to contain live ammunition — said in interviews on Wednesday that the gun was left unattended on a tray for about two hours on the day of the shooting.Lawyers for ‘Rust’ Armorer Say Gun Was Briefly Unattended Before Shooting
The weapon handed to Alec Baldwin was left on a tray for several minutes, said the lawyers. Earlier, they had said it had been unattended for hours.www.nytimes.com
They raised the issue in appearances on television and in an interview with The New York Times in which they suggested that the accessibility of the gun made it possible that it could have been tampered with before the fatal shooting. But they acknowledged there is no evidence at this point that establishes foul play.
The gun left on the tray had been loaded with six dummy rounds by the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, who took the prop ammunition from a box labeled “dummies,” said one of her lawyers, Jason Bowles. Dummy rounds contain no gunpowder and are used to resemble bullets on camera.
At about 11 a.m. on Oct. 21, Ms. Gutierrez-Reed, 24, loaded three firearms that were going to be used later that afternoon during a filming session, including the .45 Long Colt, her other lawyer, Robert Gorence, said. She then left the guns encased in socks to prevent passers-by from handling them and later went on a lunch break, leaving them unattended, he said.
If they're going to use CGI to show the discharge, surely they'd have used a prop gun with no rounds at all. Why didn't they open the cylinder to check?
Ghost Rider
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Personally I don't think on a movie set these days it is possible to accidentally load a gun with real bullets. Especially one that hires the likes of Alec Baldwin to be its leading actor.
Someone loaded it on purpose.
They wouldn't keep real ammo on set for logic reasons.
You’d hope so, but if the snippets that have been released are to be believed it sounds as if the whole setup lacked any stringent discipline or overarching safety standards.
Rumours suggest that there’d been complaints about safety prior to the incident and examples of ‘target practice’ with live ammunition. Why was the weapon left so long with ammunition and not rechecked?
The armorer's lawyers said she did recheck before handing to Halls but either that is untrue or wasn't worth much as she clearly didn't spot they were live rounds.
"Bowles said Gutierrez had checked the gun before giving it to Halls. She spun the cylinder and showed Halls each of the rounds, which she believed were six dummy rounds, he said. Halls then took the gun into the church where Baldwin was rehearsing a scene."
btw this whole thread from a film armorer is really interesting including these bits
D
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Isn't that where the 'Batman' shootings were as well?
Yep, sadly a lot of places in the US can be linked to a previous mass shooting.
PeregrineT
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No they cant, obviously very few places can, but making stuff up is fun I guess.
PeregrineT
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From what Ive heard they have a hole in the side and BB's inside so you can shake it and hear the rattle. Really its people trying to put some kind of rational spin on something irrational. Theres no way for someone to get shot on a film set outside of extreme and willful negligence by a bunch of people, and likely lead by the producers/directors.
I cant think of too many scenarios you would actually need what looks to be a real bullet(full metal jacket and not just a soft bullet you could touch before loading), and its too easy to create safe ways to instantly tell. The armorer's twitter thread does a great job of explaining some really easy ways to be safe with it, and ones that take almost no effort. Beyond a hole in the casing, any casing with a punched primer cannot fire. Thats the primers role. You wouldnt even need to put a hole in it, BB's inside or whatever, just dry fire each round to demonstrate.
But more egregiously there is no fathomable way there should have ever been a live bullet on a movie set. Its one of the dumbest things you could possibly do. Obviously its impossible to shoot someone without an actual bullet within a hundred yards of any of the guns, and theres no reason for it outside of arrogance and laziness. Then, apparently it wasnt even a live scene, and for some reason a real gun, and not a prop gun was used to line up and test the shot, or demonstrate whatever they were trying to. Then, the person using the gun didnt bother to actually check his gun before using it. Then.....you get the idea. It wasnt just one safety check that failed that lead to an unexpected accident. It had to be an entire circus of people who really werent paying attention or caring.
It obviously depends on your defintion but Gun Violence Archive defines a mass shooting as firearm violence resulting in at least four people being shot at roughly the same time and location, excluding the perpetrator. Using this definition there is roughly one per day in the US.
Mass Shootings in 2026 | Gun Violence Archive
Gun Violence Archive (GVA) is a not for profit corporation formed in 2013 to provide free online public access to accurate information about gun-related violence in the United States. GVA will collect and check for accuracy, comprehensive information about gun-related violence in the U.S. and...
www.gunviolencearchive.org
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