I was actually highlighting how 'whataboutery' isn't useful, because that's what LL was doing. That was the whole point!
Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread
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I was actually highlighting how 'whataboutery' isn't useful, because that's what LL was doing. That was the whole point!
While true, that doesn’t preclude unconscious bias.
In the US the racial bias is black men as thugs, bad guys, and more dangerous compared to otherwise similarly behaving white men.
Bishop Thumpety-Thump
Player Valuation: £20m
Nonsense, you just make the same post, over and over again. I get that you're a servile victim blamer.
As for blocking you, well, that's entirely my choice to make, not yours. If you don't like my replies to your repetitive posts, you can always put me on ignore
Showing another example of how white people are treated better than black people by police in the US in not whataboutery when that is what the discussion is about. Trying to often downplay the issue in general and then giving up an example of the police mistreating a white person is
Yep, I've said this a few times, as below.
There's no doubt whatsoever that exists and is a factor in the increased likelihood of black people getting shot by police.
My contention, however, is that it's useful to distinguish between when that's actually what has happened and when it isn't. Instead of seeing "white cop shoots black man = must be racial hatred".
I don’t think I every pretended that it only ever happened to black people, as I have stated repeatedly I just think the barriers to it happening to non white Americans are less.
But those videos do demonstrate that police do not in fact tase people every time they are escaping in a car
I think that's badly incorrect I'm afraid. Of course it's 'whataboutery'. It's literally showing a video and saying 'what about what happens to white people' - it isn't helpful, because it lacks all nuance.
You only see it as an issue when it's done one way and not the other. It's an issue full stop - it doesn't help. I could spend all day posting videos of white guys tased and shot, LL could spend all day posting videos of black guys being tased and shot; doesn't help advance any discussion.
For me, this is the discussion that needs to be had on the following grounds - one, police institutional bias. Two, black socio-economic inequity. Three, gun proliferation. Too many people for me ignore some of those elements when discussion the issue.
Every officer will make a subjective decision. But sure, I'll rephrase what I say - any person escaping in a car should be tased in my view, where at all possible, and I think the vast majority of police would make that call.
I know you'd disagree, but if Duante was tased, I think the vast majority of people would say he deserved to be, as it would have been appropriate force. The issue was he was shot, which - clearly - wasn't appropriate.
If these police regs are representative they generally recommend against tasing people operating vehicles due to the risk of collateral damage
The use of the TASER should generally be avoided in the following situations unless the totality of the circumstances indicate that other available options reasonably appear ineffective, impractical, or would present a greater danger to the officer, the subject or others, and the officer reasonably believes that the need to control the individual outweighs the risk of using the TASER:
(a) Pregnant females;
(b) Elderly individuals or obvious juveniles;
(c) Individuals who are handcuffed or otherwise restrained;
(d) Individuals who have been recently sprayed with a flammable chemical agent or who are otherwise in close proximity to any flammable material; or
(e) Individuals whose position or activity may result in collateral injury (e.g. falls from height, operating vehicles).
Well if you read back a page or 2 you will see I've said similar in a post about the killing of Adam Toledo about how these situations aren't all the same. i said how police reactions need to be addressed and the reasons for them need to be looked at. I said how American gun culture causes a lot of these deaths.
So I don't only see it as an issue one way. I am not someone who will only see the police as bad and the victim is good.
However I won't look at someone who has been clearly killed for the wrong reasons based on race and say, well that could have also been a white person. And I won't make excuses when those previously mentioned issues are almost exclusively down to race
I didn't say you mate, I just said too many people do.
Yeah, and I think the majority of cops looking at the 'totality of the circumstances' would see a suspect escaping custody, jumping in a car and slamming on an accelerator a huge danger.
Bishop Thumpety-Thump
Player Valuation: £20m
I've just been talking to a close friend who happens to be a police sergeant with over 30 years on the job. He says the regulations regarding use of tasers clearly state this is not the case at all. Too much risk re collateral damage, raises the likelihood of the vehicle crashing etc. It's the same reason that the police often disengage from high speed chases.
This is in Australia, where as long as you're not an indigenous child*, you're much safer getting arrested than in the US. However it does seem statistically true that the darker your skin, the greater chance you'll die during arrest, both here and in the states. No idea if that's the case in the UK though.
* at least 455 indigenous children have died in police custody since 1991.
** edit - have just read @LinekersLegs post above which shows US regs are similar to Australian regs.
Sorry, misinterpreted your post when you said "you only see it as an issue when it's done one way and not the other". Thought it was specific to what I said
Which was shown to be exactly the case with Daunte Wright. Although he obviously got shot rather than tased. He drove off and hit another car, thankfully not injuring the other passengers. All over a rubbish traffic stop and a situation that wasn't immediately dangerous to anyone else
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