Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

[LinekersLegs]

No you shoot someone seven times when they ignore police orders and reach for something out of sight, in a country dominated by private citizens owning guns.

I don't get why this is hard to understand.

Because your rules of engagement would mean that our already horrendous number of police shootings would dramatically increase.

Unless someone instantly holds their hands above their head and freezes basically any movement can be seen as threatening - reaching for their wallet to show id, a phone to call a lawyer etc.

There are a significant number of potential steps to control the situation between ”doing nothing” and ”shoot them in the back seven times” even when someone is armed and threatening as other police officers prove every day.

You are also ignoring the presence of the 3 kids in the car, discharge of a weapon should have been the very last resort to ensure their safety.

 

[neil999]

It was. You're taking 2 seconds to make a call between potentially saving your own life and not.

If a gun was found in that car under the drivers seat, what would your reaction be to this? Changed right? Well, the cop had no clue whether there was or not, and that's the whole point - why should he take that chance.

Risking their life is part of their job,they need to be of a higher standard than a normal citizen

 

[ToffeeTim]

You have all the context you need. Police pull gun, ask for compliance, guy ignores, walks to drivers door and leans in for something.

Inevitably and correctly gets shot.

If he complied and didn't do something stupid, he doesn't get shot. For me, the blame is 100% him. It doesn't matter if he was the nicest guy in the world prior to all the above occurring; once he decides to do what he did the consequences were all on him.

The context is its a nation of gun toting loons. Put your self in the shoes of the cop and ask yourself, if you have a suspect ignoring orders and reaching for something, would you risk a bullet in the head and not going home to see your kids, or would you take the action that means you definitely can do that.

For me, it's the latter. Every time.

They should never have left him get to the car. Of course its understandable theyd be wary about what might be in the car. So they should have had him restrained and bundled to the ground before he got into the car. They had a clear alternative in how to deal with this in my opinion.

 

[Tubey]

Risking their life is part of their job,they need to be of a higher standard than a normal citizen

They are and do. But they're still allowed to act in self defence. This was self defence.

If the guy didn't do what he did, he doesn't get shot. That's a fact. The officers actions were entirely reasonable. That's a fact too.

You can disregard personal responsibility for one's actions if you want but don't be surprised when the police are cleared of any wrongdoing on this.

 

[neil999]

They should never have left him get to the car. Of course its understandable theyd be wary about what might be in the car. So they should have had him restrained and bundled to the ground before he got into the car. They had a clear alternative in how to deal with this in my opinion.

That’s what I found odd and that the officer goes right up to him and grabs his vest, surely you want to be keeping some distance if your that concerned about getting hurt...it’s all very strange

 

[Tubey]

They should never have left him get to the car. Of course its understandable theyd be wary about what might be in the car. So they should have had him restrained and bundled to the ground before he got into the car. They had a clear alternative in how to deal with this in my opinion.

It was 5 seconds. You have the benefit of hindsight and watching it over and over again. They didn't. They attempted to drag him back but it was clearly an extremely unexpected course of action from the suspect and they were put in a horrible situation.

You've got a gun on someone and they ignore you, walk away and reach for something in a car - seriously, what other possible thought would you have in that scenario other than "he's going for a gun". It's such a bizarre stupid thing to do that the police have to assume he's lost the plot.

 

[neil999]

They are and do. But they're still allowed to act in self defence. This was self defence.

If the guy didn't do what he did, he doesn't get shot. That's a fact. The officers actions were entirely reasonable. That's a fact too.

You can disregard personal responsibility for one's actions if you want but don't be surprised when the police are cleared of any wrongdoing on this.

But it’s self defence on assumption

 

[Tubey]

That’s what I found odd and that the officer goes right up to him and grabs his vest, surely you want to be keeping some distance if your that concerned about getting hurt...it’s all very strange

He tried to grab him away from the car when he realised what he was doing. But then he'd reached in, so he let go and shot before it was too late.

 

[Tubey]

But it’s self defence on assumption

Yes, assuming a suspect ignoring instruction and reaching into a dark concealed space isn't doing so for a chocolate bar he dropped.

You expect police to wait until a gun is pointed at their heads. That's completely unreasonable.

 

[Prevenger17]

The officers actions were entirely reasonable.

I would say they're reasonable in the context of the USA. But it's absolutely crazy when considered in any other sane country. It shouldn't be normal. FWIW I mostly agree with you, the dude could have just stopped and complied, what was he thinking?

 

[neil999]

Yes, assuming a suspect ignoring instruction and reaching into a dark concealed space isn't doing so for a chocolate bar he dropped.

You expect police to wait until a gun is pointed at their heads. That's completely unreasonable.

Tbf I have watched it loads and I still can't work out what the guy is doing, it's very peculiar

 

[neil999]

Hopefully he survives(obviously) and we get to find our what was going on!

 

[LinekersLegs]

Yes, assuming a suspect ignoring instruction and reaching into a dark concealed space isn't doing so for a chocolate bar he dropped.

You expect police to wait until a gun is pointed at their heads. That's completely unreasonable.

Yes, I expect the police to wait until there is a clear threat to their lives before they discharge their weapons, especially when there are kids around.

I do not consider that an unreasonable expectation.

 

[Tubey]

I would say they're reasonable in the context of the USA. But it's absolutely crazy when considered in any other sane country. It shouldn't be normal. FWIW I mostly agree with you, the dude could have just stopped and complied, what was he thinking?

Oh definitely. Simply doesn't happen in the UK.

The issue with this one, for me, is guns, not racism. They should be protesting about guns. The reason a police officer in the US can reasonably fear for his life in that scenario.

 

[Tubey]

Yes, I expect the police to wait until there is a clear threat to their lives before they discharge their weapons, especially when there are kids around.

I do not consider that an unreasonable expectation.

There was a clear threat to their life. A suspect ignoring instruction and reaching for a concealed area.

If that video ended with the suspect turning round and shooting the cop in the head, everyone would be saying "why didn't the cop shoot".