Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

[Seanjd]

I've always been an advocate of the Swiss model personally.

How come? WHat's good about it?

 

[dandydan]

Where does the modern day Orwell thing you've mentioned a few times come from?

What @Blue 1 said, I've heard or rather read Paloma faith say it too. Not much of an endorsement but hey ho.

 

[Dylan]

Three letters.

N
R
A

They block any attempts at strong guns laws...it's ridiculous.

Think it was last week that Obama was at a town hall in Indiana being asked a question by a gun shop owner asking why him and Hillary want to ban guns.

He responded (paraphrasing in a big way here) 'We don't. We are all for legal ownership. We want Americans to be able to use guns for recreation and hunting. For self and home defence. What we want is to put restrictions in place on gun sales. Right now we have ISIL sympathizers in known to the government that we can put on the no-fly list. But thanks to the NRA, we can not stop them from walking down the street, into a store and buying a gun.'

(Obama is a tad more articulate than me....I will dig the video up of it here shortly).

And now we have a man, associated with ISIS/ISIL shoot up the club.

Edit - to add video:

 

[dandydan]

How come? WHat's good about it?

One of the highest rates of gun ownership in the world yet very little gun crime. Their army reservists keep their weapons at home, the type of weapons that are very hard to get hold of in the USA.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

I can only speculate as I firmly believe we need stronger...much stronger laws regarding guns.

My speculation is that the right wing would view any concessions towards gun control as one step closer to making them illegal all together.

The whole argument about guns being a right guaranteed by the constitution, and therefore set in stone.

Let's slide right on past the fact that it's called an AMENDMENT (and god if you can't change something that's called an amendment what exactly can you change?) and move right onto the text itself.

"A well regulated militia". What part of some survivalist nutbar stocking his garage with high calibre semi automatic assault weapons and enough ammunition to supply a small African dictatorship is covered by the phrase "well regulated"?

Also, the 2nd amendment was signed into law 225 years ago. What sort of divine power of prescience do the right wing think the Founders were imbued with, that allowed them to see what is best for 21st century civilisation than the people who live in that time on a daily basis?

The most dangerous handheld weaponry they had to worry about was something along the lines of a musket, which took (I'd guess) something along the lines of 30 seconds to reload between each and every shot. As if they could ever IMAGINE a weapon capable of pumping out shot after shot after shot without the need to even lower your weapon.

It's absolutely insane on every possible level.

 

[Seanjd]

One of the highest rates of gun ownership in the world yet very little gun crime. Their army reservists keep their weapons at home, the type of weapons that are very hard to get hold of in the USA.

Gun crime in Switzerland still far higher than the UK. Not sure why @SNova would endorse this to be honest. Also, like you mentioned, it has a lot to do with conscription.

 

[dandydan]

Gun crime in Switzerland still far higher than the UK. Not sure why @SNova would endorse this to be honest. Also, like you mentioned, it has a lot to do with conscription.

National service is part of their national character much like the right to bear arms in America

 

[dandydan]

The whole argument about guns being a right guaranteed by the constitution, and therefore set in stone.

Let's slide right on past the fact that it's called an AMENDMENT (and god if you can't change something that's called an amendment what exactly can you change?) and move right onto the text itself.

"A well regulated militia". What part of some survivalist nutbar stocking his garage with high calibre semi automatic assault weapons and enough ammunition to supply a small African dictatorship is covered by the phrase "well regulated"?

Also, the 2nd amendment was signed into law 225 years ago. What sort of divine power of prescience do the right wing think the Founders were imbued with, that allowed them to see what is best for 21st century civilisation than the people who live in that time on a daily basis?

The most dangerous handheld weaponry they had to worry about was something along the lines of a musket, which took (I'd guess) something along the lines of 30 seconds to reload between each and every shot. As if they could ever IMAGINE a weapon capable of pumping out shot after shot after shot without the need to even lower your weapon.

It's absolutely insane on every possible level.

Here's one to ponder.
Supposing the second amendment gets scrapped and everyone complies with it. Then out of the blue another jihadi kills 50 people in the name of ISIS.
People will say "how could this happen? Guns are illegal, the second amendment doesn't exist"
A lot of people, bear in mind this is America will say
"banning guns didn't stop this jihadi, maybe we should ban Islam?"

"You can't do that!!! Freedom of worship is guaranteed by the constitution!"

"So was the right to bear arms"
Before you ridicule it look at who's running for president, and might well win.

 

[bring the ghost on]

B b but you can't understand, you're not gay.
Wise words indeed from the modern day Orwell

Unfortunate words from Jones, but he was clearly riled and getting a bit overly-emotional due to some absolutely baffling reporting and consistent nit picking at his very obvious point that the attack was deliberately anti-LGBT.

 

[bring the ghost on]

Here's one to ponder.
Supposing the second amendment gets scrapped and everyone complies with it. Then out of the blue another jihadi kills 50 people in the name of ISIS.
People will say "how could this happen? Guns are illegal, the second amendment doesn't exist"
A lot of people, bear in mind this is America will say
"banning guns didn't stop this jihadi, maybe we should ban Islam?"

"You can't do that!!! Freedom of worship is guaranteed by the constitution!"

"So was the right to bear arms"
Before you ridicule it look at who's running for president, and might well win.

Trump is on the news right now banging on about banning all Muslims (oh, apart from Sadiq Khan if he fancies it - what, he doesn't? Well screw him, he's banned too!)

The country is just totally screwed.

 

[dandydan]

Unfortunate words from Jones, but he was clearly riled and getting a bit overly-emotional due to some absolutely baffling reporting and consistent nit picking at his very obvious point that the attack was deliberately anti-LGBT.

But he equally wouldn't accept those people were attacked because of the nutters ideology. Even so once the discussion wasn't going his way he had the demeanour of a teenager in detention.

 

[Seanjd]

Here's one to ponder.
Supposing the second amendment gets scrapped and everyone complies with it. Then out of the blue another jihadi kills 50 people in the name of ISIS.
People will say "how could this happen? Guns are illegal, the second amendment doesn't exist"
A lot of people, bear in mind this is America will say
"banning guns didn't stop this jihadi, maybe we should ban Islam?"

"You can't do that!!! Freedom of worship is guaranteed by the constitution!"

"So was the right to bear arms"
Before you ridicule it look at who's running for president, and might well win.

Well, Trump is already talking about stopping Muslims migrating to the USA and putting Muslims already in the USA on a list, regardless of gun laws.

Gun laws are a small part of this massacre. There is no doubt in my mind that gun control would help, though.

 

[Seanjd]

But he equally wouldn't accept those people were attacked because of the nutters ideology. Even so once the discussion wasn't going his way he had the demeanour of a teenager in detention.

Did you watch the video? He says numerous times that it's both a homophobic and ideological attack.

 

[joey_macmo]

But he equally wouldn't accept those people were attacked because of the nutters ideology. Even so once the discussion wasn't going his way he had the demeanour of a teenager in detention.

Those people were attacked because of their sexuality first and foremost.

 

[peteblue]

This is purely a coincidence......

Congregants gathered as usual at the Fort Pierce Islamic Center for prayers on Sunday, the day after one of their members murdered 49 people and injured more than 50 more at a gay club in Orlando.

Omar Mateen, 29, is the second extremist to be tied to the small Florida mosque, which has about 200 regular attendees.

In 2014, Moner-Muhammad Abu Salha carried out a suicide bombing in Syria and is believed to be one of the first Americans to commit such an act overseas. Before joining the jihad, Salha lived in Vero Beach and attended the same Fort Pierce mosque as Mateen.

Pure coincidence.........