Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

[Caolam]

But those carrying out mass killing of people in America are not organised jihadists they are people with social or mental issues who can pick up automatic weapons with no control. The type of people who would find it difficult to get their hands on such weaponry where it not readily available.
Gun control and the culture of gun ownership will not stop all killings but it would certainly reduce it.

 

[bring the ghost on]

But he equally wouldn't accept those people were attacked because of the nutters ideology. Even so once the discussion wasn't going his way he had the demeanour of a teenager in detention.

As I say, he got over-emotional, but I genuinely find it hard to blame him for that. Don't know if you've seen the full 10 minute clip, but it is absolutely baffling how the pair of them point blank refuse Jones's point and draw such illogical conclusions from it - "How can you say this is a worse attack than Paris?", "It's a crime against humanity, [not LGBT people]", etc.

 

[johnnydawg68]

Haven't talked much about the Orlando thing but it hits pretty close to home. I was born in a hospital four blocks away from the shooting. I worked for four years at a restaurant six blocks away. I lived in the surrounding area for a few years too. My grandparents lived just down the road. My mom went to high school two blocks away. So that part of Orlando is for lack of a better word, home, though I didn't live there my whole life. Working in the restaurant business while I was there as an adult, and consequently got to know many LBGT people who became my friends. I hadn't had any experience with Gay or Lesbian people before (that I knew of) so while I've never really cared about other people's sexuality, when you care about people, individuals, whose sexuality is not yours, it's a different thing than just being "tolerant" or "live and let live". My first thought was I hope to God no one I used to know was there. Thankfully, the one person I still keep in touch with told me she's ok. I'm grateful for that.

I don't have deep words or political statements to make other than this. The shooter was clearly motivated by fear. Fear of something different. Although no one reading this is going to pick up a gun and shoot someone, I would hope if you read this you'll look at your own lives, and recognize the extent to which all of us, in some way or other, are motivated more by fear than love. Just get rid of the fear and replace it with love. Yes it's that simple.

 

[carlos21]

Haven't talked much about the Orlando thing but it hits pretty close to home. I was born in a hospital four blocks away from the shooting. I worked for four years at a restaurant six blocks away. I lived in the surrounding area for a few years too. My grandparents lived just down the road. My mom went to high school two blocks away. So that part of Orlando is for lack of a better word, home, though I didn't live there my whole life. Working in the restaurant business while I was there as an adult, and consequently got to know many LBGT people who became my friends. I hadn't had any experience with Gay or Lesbian people before (that I knew of) so while I've never really cared about other people's sexuality, when you care about people, individuals, whose sexuality is not yours, it's a different thing than just being "tolerant" or "live and let live". My first thought was I hope to God no one I used to know was there. Thankfully, the one person I still keep in touch with told me she's ok. I'm grateful for that.

I don't have deep words or political statements to make other than this. The shooter was clearly motivated by fear. Fear of something different. Although no one reading this is going to pick up a gun and shoot someone, I would hope if you read this you'll look at your own lives, and recognize the extent to which all of us, in some way or other, are motivated more by fear than love. Just get rid of the fear and replace it with love. Yes it's that simple.

I agree with you there mate hope you stay safe out there mate

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

Here's one to ponder.
Supposing the second amendment gets scrapped and everyone complies with it. Then out of the blue another jihadi kills 50 people in the name of ISIS.
People will say "how could this happen? Guns are illegal, the second amendment doesn't exist"
A lot of people, bear in mind this is America will say
"banning guns didn't stop this jihadi, maybe we should ban Islam?"

"You can't do that!!! Freedom of worship is guaranteed by the constitution!"

"So was the right to bear arms"
Before you ridicule it look at who's running for president, and might well win.

Ok well a few things make that argument frankly bull****.

Firstly (and by far the most important point) scrapping the second amendment wouldn't be in response to 50 people dying in Orlando.

It would be in response to (roughly) 13,000 (2015 figure) people dying year in year out. For those keeping track, for your banning Islam scenario to be roughly comparable, there'd need to be a September 11th scale atrocity being committed every 12 weeks, EVERY year for a significant number of years. (By the way that's not taking into account the thousands upon thousands of people whose suicides may have been avoided were it not for the vast quantities of readily available guns).

Secondly, you're assuming that because one change is made, others will automatically follow with no thought as to how daft they are, and that all the amendments make as much sense and are as relevant today as all the others.

Thirdly and (somewhat) tongue in cheek. Banning religion (not Islam - all religion) might not be the worst idea in the world. But that's for another day.

 

[carlos21]

Haven't talked much about the Orlando thing but it hits pretty close to home. I was born in a hospital four blocks away from the shooting. I worked for four years at a restaurant six blocks away. I lived in the surrounding area for a few years too. My grandparents lived just down the road. My mom went to high school two blocks away. So that part of Orlando is for lack of a better word, home, though I didn't live there my whole life. Working in the restaurant business while I was there as an adult, and consequently got to know many LBGT people who became my friends. I hadn't had any experience with Gay or Lesbian people before (that I knew of) so while I've never really cared about other people's sexuality, when you care about people, individuals, whose sexuality is not yours, it's a different thing than just being "tolerant" or "live and let live". My first thought was I hope to God no one I used to know was there. Thankfully, the one person I still keep in touch with told me she's ok. I'm grateful for that.

I don't have deep words or political statements to make other than this. The shooter was clearly motivated by fear. Fear of something different. Although no one reading this is going to pick up a gun and shoot someone, I would hope if you read this you'll look at your own lives, and recognize the extent to which all of us, in some way or other, are motivated more by fear than love. Just get rid of the fear and replace it with love. Yes it's that simple.

Can you send me pics of that cruise ship you was on please,

 

[peteblue]

Those people were attacked because of their sexuality first and foremost.

Doesn't really matter why, they are dead and their families and friends are destroyed..........

On Sunday, Edward Sotomayor Jr., 34; Stanley Almodovar III, 23; Luis Omar Ocasio-Capo, 20; Juan Ramon Guerrero, 22; Eric Ivan Ortiz-Rivera, 36; Peter O. Gonzalez-Cruz, 22; Luis S. Vielma, 22 and Kimberly Morris, 37, were confirmed dead.

In the early hours of Monday morning, Eddie Jamoldroy Justice, 30; Darryl Roman Burt II, 29, Deonka Deidra Drayton, 32; Alejandro Barrios Martinez, 21; Anthony Luis Laureanodisla, 25; Jean Carlos Mendez Perez, 35; and Franky Jimmy Dejesus Velazquez, 50, were added to the list.

Later on Monday morning the authorities announced more names of the 50 who died: Amanda Alvear, 25; Martin Benitez Torres, 33; Luis Daniel Wilson-Leon, 37; Mercedez Marisol Flores, 26; Xavier Emmanuel Serrano Rosado, 35; Gilberto Ramon Silva Menendez, 25; Simon Fernandez, 31; Oscar Aracena-Montero, 26; Enrique L. Rios, Jr, 25; Miguel Angel Honorato, 30; Javier Jorge-Reyes, 40; Joel Rayon Paniagua, 32; Jason Benjamin Josaphat, 19; Cory James Connell, 21; Juan P. Rivera Velazquez, 37; Luis Daniel Conde, 39; Shane Evan Tomlinson, 33; Juan Chevez-Martinez, 25; Jerald Arthur Wright, 31; Leroy Valentin Fernandez, 25; and Tevin Eugene Crosby, 25.

In the afternoon, authorities identified another nine victims: Jonathan Antonio Camuy Vega, 24; Jean C. Nives Rodriguez, 27; Rodolfo Ayala-Ayala, 33; Brenda Lee Marquez McCool, 49; Yilmary Rodriguez Sulivan, 24; Christopher Andrew Leinonen, 32; Angel L. Candelario-Padro, 28; Frank Hernandez, 27; Paul Terrell Henry, 41; Antonio Davon Brown, 29; and Christopher Joseph Sanfeliz, 24.

I just hope that the b'stards father is properly interrogated to find out just how much he knew or contributed to his sons actions.........

 

[johnnydawg68]

Can you send me pics of that cruise ship you was on please,

Pics are the travel thread Carlito. Not a cruise ship, just went to Rio de Janeiro.

 

[Seanjd]

Doesn't really matter why

I think it matters hugely.

 

[carlos21]

Pics are the travel thread Carlito. Not a cruise ship, just went to Rio de Janeiro.

Okay mate thanks mate.

 

[dandydan]

Ok well a few things make that argument frankly bull****.

Firstly (and by far the most important point) scrapping the second amendment wouldn't be in response to 50 people dying in Orlando.

It would be in response to (roughly) 13,000 (2015 figure) people dying year in year out. For those keeping track, for your banning Islam scenario to be roughly comparable, there'd need to be a September 11th scale atrocity being committed every 12 weeks, EVERY year for a significant number of years. (By the way that's not taking into account the thousands upon thousands of people whose suicides may have been avoided were it not for the vast quantities of readily available guns).

Secondly, you're assuming that because one change is made, others will automatically follow with no thought as to how daft they are, and that all the amendments make as much sense and are as relevant today as all the others.

Thirdly and (somewhat) tongue in cheek. Banning religion (not Islam - all religion) might not be the worst idea in the world. But that's for another day.

How many of those 13000 were killed with illegal guns? You note suicides, not really something gun control would eradicate is it? Someone determined to kill themselves will find a way turning a gun on yourself is just the easiest.
How do you propose enforcing a ban on guns by the way?

 

[RaleighBlue]

Doesn't really matter why, they are dead and their families and friends are destroyed..........

Of course it matters why.

 

[Seanjd]

Doesn't really matter why

Pete, how can it not matter why they died?

 

[anjelikaferrett]

I used to be a Catholic, mate. Never particularly subscribed to the vast majority of doctrine, but I tried my best to be the best Catholic I could be. As years chugged by, I became increasingly disenfranchised. Such hatred and anger; resentment of others for little to no logical reason. Idiotic fundamentalist opposition to any form of progress. I began to become more and more isolated, but working in a Catholic school meant that I had to keep this under wraps.

I was becoming very cynical and frustrated with the whole system and felt internally opposed and increasingly angry with what the faith was. Much of my belief had waned and I questioned various elements of Christianity for various reasons.

Then - obviously - after the separation from my wife last year and my divorce being finalised, I was unceremonially told that 'the diocese did not believe that my conduct in my personal life matched Catholic teaching' and therefor I would no longer be able to 'progress in the Catholic teaching system should I want a senior position.'

They never considered that my wife was the one who left me; that I'd been thrown out of my own house; that I'd given years of selfless and spotless service to the system, or that none of this was of my choosing. They simply saw me as a 'divorced man.'

If I was to ever remarry, I'd be prevented from taking communion. If I actually wanted to attend another Church ever again...

I became the Assistant Head of a state school a few weeks back and I haven't looked back.

Religion might be okay - it's no longer to my liking - but those who follow religion with a fundamental idiocy and a total banal failure to look outside of their narrow tunnel vision are absolute imbeciles and are condemned to judge others without remorse or understanding that life isn't a lovely, perfect utopia.

Well said- as a fellow Catholic who has also fallen by the wayside for most of the reasons you outline above.

 

[dandydan]

Of course it matters why.

Pete, how can it not matter why they died?

It also matters why their killer thought they should die.