Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

[tsubaki]

Lots of people care, and I'm not sure how highlighting your high rates of inner-city and gang related gun crime excuses almost total political inaction. At least you've tried to pretend you give an eff about it, but it amazes me how you lads can always fall short of endorsing the search for a solution

That is true, though then again a lot of what comes out of the mouths of politicians who call for gun control in the aftermath of these horrors couldnt really be said to be part of the search for a solution either. Most of whats been proposed over the past two days are things that they know would either have no appreciable difference, wouldn't have stopped this and/or would certainly be struck down by the courts anyway - and there is an awful lot of cognitive dissonance about why these things happen as well.

For example, Buttigieg (I think) was on CNN yesterday afternoon saying that the claims in the El Paso scumbag's dossier were not "American", as if there isn't and has never been a prominent nativist streak on the US right that has killed hundreds of thousands of people down the years. We also have to look at why people feel the need to do this (and do related things like kill themselves at a much higher rate than any other big Western state for example), and what it might say about the state of US society.

This is no time for the head in the sand nonsense from anyone, be it one side ignoring the issue and going on about socialism instead or the other coming out with the same gun show loophole / better checks / I've been on about this for ages every time people are butchered.

 

[Grinch]

I would say start small, like passing a single piece of gun legislation after decades of gun violence to just to see what it feels like. Stop guns being stocked in supermarkets. Are guns advertised, have a look at that. Look at background checks, limit gun purchases per household, try and implement compulsory training and licensing restrictions, restrict NRA lobbying practices, change conceal and carry laws, what about a nationwide scheme where people can trade in a few of their 30 guns for cash? These are just off the top of my head, I'm sure with a bit of imagination and a will, there's all sorts of avenues that could be looked at

Some good points. Some of those I brought up with local legislation and were shot down. If I remember correctly, I think the House and Senate brought these issues up but nothing were done. Its just a game of politics unfortunately. :/

 

[Toast]

I would say start small, like passing a single piece of gun legislation after decades of gun violence to just to see what it feels like. Stop guns being stocked in supermarkets. Are guns advertised, have a look at that. Look at background checks, limit gun purchases per household, try and implement compulsory training and licensing restrictions, restrict NRA lobbying practices, change conceal and carry laws, what about a nationwide scheme where people can trade in a few of their 30 guns for cash? These are just off the top of my head, I'm sure with a bit of imagination and a will, there's all sorts of avenues that could be looked at

Limit ammunition sales.
You can have a gun, but you can't have 300 rounds in your house ?

 

[Prevenger17]

Its just a game of politics unfortunately. :/

No idea how politicians have resisted change in the face of this ferocious strain of political activism

 

[Prevenger17]

Limit ammunition sales.
You can have a gun, but you can't have 300 rounds in your house ?

Amazing. How about gun safety training that has to be renewed annually, like proper storage and handling and that kind of thing? It would be like first aid, except with a tool of murder. It's almost like there are all sorts of alternatives to doing absolutely nothing

 

[tsubaki]

Limit ammunition sales.
You can have a gun, but you can't have 300 rounds in your house ?

This would be a good step, but a lot of people make their own ammunition already.

 

[Prevenger17]

This would be a good step, but a lot of people make their own ammunition already.

Is it always a case in America where if you can't stop something completely, there's no point in doing anything at all?

 

[SteveSC]

This would be a good step, but a lot of people make their own ammunition already.

That would be easily fixed. Outlaw home made ammo or make them require a permit to do so. Put markings on the casings. Fine them or jail them if their ammo is used illegally.

 

[Grinch]

No idea how politicians have resisted change in the face of this ferocious strain of political activism

Money like mentioned previously. But hey I am going to just read out the rest of the conversations and stay out of this

 

[tsubaki]

Is it always a case in America where if you can't stop something completely, there's no point in doing anything at all?

Well no, but the US really needs to stop tinkering around the edges of this issue (or not tinkering at all in the GOPs case).

Limiting ammunition stored at home might be a good idea, but then again how many active shooting incidents have seen more than 300 rounds fired off? How would you prevent or even detect a person buying more (or storing more) than that?

 

[Amw79]

I think pointing the finger at Trump after the El Paso shooting is, although legitimate, probably unhelpful.

It turns it into a Left/Right issue, where the MAGA brigade will just double down on their political allegiance, and the real issues of gun safety and growing white nationalism will be missed.

When someone shoots 20 innocent people it should be good/bad issue. A right/wrong issue. A normality/insanity issue.

That said, I think that a country which didn’t make any substantial changes after the Sandy Hook massacre, where 20 six and seven year old kids were shot and killed is never going to make any changes.

 

[Toast]

That said, I think that a country which didn’t make any substantial changes after the Sandy Hook massacre, where 20 six and seven year old kids were shot and killed is never going to make any changes.

Great point about Sandy Hook mate.

I thought that would have forced change.

 

[Amw79]

Great point about Sandy Hook mate.

I thought that would have forced change.

Yeah, if that incident didn’t force change, I’m not sure anything could.

 

[DanEFC92]

I think pointing the finger at Trump after the El Paso shooting is, although legitimate, probably unhelpful.

It turns it into a Left/Right issue, where the MAGA brigade will just double down on their political allegiance, and the real issues of gun safety and growing white nationalism will be missed.

When someone shoots 20 innocent people it should be good/bad issue. A right/wrong issue. A normality/insanity issue.

That said, I think that a country which didn’t make any substantial changes after the Sandy Hook massacre, where 20 six and seven year old kids were shot and killed is never going to make any changes.

Sounds like more of a 'right' issue, that.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Found this a interesting article detailing what similarities there are among most mass shooters and therefore what possible approaches might be to reduce the number of incidents.

Contributor: We have studied every mass shooting since 1966. Here's what we've learned about the shooters

Perpetrators of mass shootings have a lot in common. Understanding that could help prevent future violence.

www.latimes.com

Our goal has been to find new, data-driven pathways for preventing such shootings. Although we haven’t found that mass shooters are all alike, our data do reveal four commonalities among the perpetrators of nearly all the mass shootings we studied.

First, the vast majority of mass shooters in our study experienced early childhood trauma and exposure to violence at a young age. The nature of their exposure included parental suicide, physical or sexual abuse, neglect, domestic violence, and/or severe bullying. The trauma was often a precursor to mental health concerns, including depression, anxiety, thought disorders or suicidality.

Second, practically every mass shooter we studied had reached an identifiable crisis point in the weeks or months leading up to the shooting. They often had become angry and despondent because of a specific grievance. For workplace shooters, a change in job status was frequently the trigger. For shooters in other contexts, relationship rejection or loss often played a role. Such crises were, in many cases, communicated to others through a marked change in behavior, an expression of suicidal thoughts or plans, or specific threats of violence.

Third, most of the shooters had studied the actions of other shooters and sought validation for their motives. People in crisis have always existed. But in the age of 24-hour rolling news and social media, there are scripts to follow that promise notoriety in death. Societal fear and fascination with mass shootings partly drives the motivation to commit them. Hence, as we have seen in the last week, mass shootings tend to come in clusters. They are socially contagious. Perpetrators study other perpetrators and model their acts after previous shootings. Many are radicalized online in their search for validation from others that their will to murder is justified.

Fourth, the shooters all had the means to carry out their plans. Once someone decides life is no longer worth living and that murdering others would be a proper revenge, only means and opportunity stand in the way of another mass shooting. Is an appropriate shooting site accessible? Can the would-be shooter obtain firearms? In 80% of school shootings, perpetrators got their weapons from family members, according to our data. Workplace shooters tended to use handguns they legally owned. Other public shooters were more likely to acquire them illegally.