Current Affairs The 2020 United States Presidential Election

Status
Not open for further replies.
lol You boys choose the strangest pretexts to get upset about. Ok vereauxi, no more scary book lurnin' or historical parables about whether people better remember Marie Antoinette's charity work or being told to eat cake then, if it makes you feel more secure.

As you well know, this is a one-sided, tendentious filtering of what happened in West Virginia. Biden outperformed Clinton slightly - but this is like saying that rain is wet and falls from the sky because Clinton won the lowest number of total votes by a Democrat in West Virginia since the backlash against the First World War. So yes, Biden improved on 2016 (albeit almost imperceptibly on the NYT swing map), but Osama Bin Laden, the Ayatollah Khomeini and an inanimate carbon rod would have, too. Biden's performance was still worse than Obama in 2012 and especially 2008, when he took 7 counties. It was, in fact, the second lowest vote share for Democrat in the history of the state of West Virginia. And you are also ignoring that Trump increased both his share of the vote and his total votes by far, far more than Biden did. If you consider it progress when your opponent defeats you by an even greater margin than he did last time, knock yourself out. "Phenomenal", to borrow a phrase. And, far more relevant than West Virginia, you are also overlooking the further and likely permanent swings toward the Republicans in Iowa or Ohio - states that the Democrats once won routinely even as late as Obama.

Regarding Democrat support among African Americans, you are also ignoring both historical trends, momentum and overall turnout, all of which matter far more than vote share. Yes, the overall percentage is high, but when it swings even by a few points to Republicans the consequences are existential for the Democrats given the precarity of their coalition. This, as I'm sure you know, is exactly what happened in 2016, when Trump won the same share of the white vote as Romney but defeated Clinton through modest gains among African American and Latino voters. In 2020, it is looking like African-American voters again swung for Trump by about 3-5% (which is essentially two votes for Republicans - add one for them and subtract one for you). Absent an unprecedented surge against a historically unpopular opponent in the suburbs (by people who still voted Republican down ballot) and by young people (which the Party apparently has no interest in sustaining if the appointment of fossil fuel crony Cedric Richmond as environmental liaison is anything to go by), this shift alone would be enough to cost them an election. It did in 2016.

When we consider African American voter turnout, the picture is even more bleak. Take a look at what has happened in Cleveland, for example:
EnChQlgXYAA1Zfe

This is what the obliteration of the Democratic Party looks like.

Among Latino voters (who do not actually exist as a coherent voting bloc), it is even more stark. Tejanos swung to Trump by huge margins - 30 point swings in many counties. That's the headline but elsewhere the Democrats also lost ground badly. In Nevada for instance it is looking from the exit polls like Biden shed 10% among Hispanic voters. This is terrifying to anyone who actually understands how Democrats win elections, but not unexpected; after all, the Party took great pains to repudiate the only candidate who understands how to mobilise Latino voters, turned up their noses at his formidable grassroots organisation, spent the whole summer ignoring increasingly frantic warnings and pleas about Latino outreach, and then, when it was far too late, assumed that classic specimens like this could win them back:


Imagine just how contemptuous or indifferent to your party voters have to be to swing toward Donald Trump, a man who spent four years demonising immigrants from South of the border, calling them rapists, accusing them of being unable to judge impartially... And then the Democrats lost significant ground to him. Has it occurred to you yet to genuinely attempt to understand why that is? If you honestly think people don't understand the insinuation when the most salient question as they're queued up for food handouts is who they voted for - or, that implications of the elites' collective guilt-induced hysteria and competitive rites of wokeness don't nonetheless filter through to people who don't know who Kendi or Robin di Angelo are - or, how people who've just lost their small businesses or their homes or their ability to feed their children can be expected respond to being told that the most urgent problem in America is their lack of contrition for oppressing Barack Obama and Kamala Harris's children... well, lets just say, liberals' extraordinary talent at keeping their heads beneath the sand is yet another reason why we can state with such certainty that the future is so bleak for the Democrats. In ceremonies of the horseman, even the pawn must hold a grudge.

None of this has not gone unnoticed among conservatives (who virtually nobody here reads or understands). They have started to realise, far, far sooner than the Democrats, that a decisive bloc of Latino and African-American voters will vote along class lines when given the option, giving them to keys to govern virtually unopposed. Democrats think they've won some epic victory against the final video game boss, but the truth is, against Trump they were playing on easy mode. The Republicans have far more room to grow than the Democrats, who maxxed out their turnout and still lost down-ballot while barely defeating an impossibly weak opponent. They will never again get to campaign against a pandemic, a depression and a historically unpopular President who spend his airtime blubbering that Grayson Carter was very unfair to him when he wasn't insulting the very voters who nonetheless swung for him. The Republicans know this, and will run a ruthless, disciplined, largely colourblind campaign for nationalism, patriotism, pride and solidarity, and against clueless, condescending, prosperous liberal know-it-alls. The script is familiar, and they've recited it with great effect since Nixon. They will call themselves the Party of the Working Class, which is grotesque but against the post-Obama Democrats, still the more plausible claim to the mantle. And they can cite the very tangible material gains accrued to the lowest income bracket under Trump (and if you're bursting at the seams to tell me that Trump wasn't personally responsible, you're correct and it doesn't matter). In 2022 + 2024, the Republicans will restore their standing among rich white suburbanites (whose 2020 aberration the post-Obama sold out every other element of their coalition for) and continue expanding their gains with non-college educated whites, African Americans and Latinos (many of whom will also once again cease to vote). The appearance of authenticity is the most important currency there is in American politics, and against this, once Biden and Sanders are out to pasture, the only Democrats with any national profile act like they're auditioning to play the villains in Office Space. If you let the RNC choose their own opponent, Harris, Buttigieg and Warren would top every single list.

Stamp your feet, gnash and wail, filter the polls and keep calling me playground names or insulting my 'intellectual complexity' (PS Lol!) to collect your Pavlovian dopamine rewards from the SteveBots, if it soothes you. It doesn't matter. It changes nothing. It is a certainty that the Democrats will lose the House in 2022, and two years later when West Virginia, Montana and Ohio go red, they'll have lost the Senate for a generation, if not permanently. And most likely the Presidency too, without Trump to drive turnout and after Biden does nothing (or, better yet, does nothing save for waiving college debt by fiat) and the Party's clueless functionaries, grifters and obedient base toss up some hilariously tone-deaf West Wing kayfabe tag team like Harris and Buttigieg to test once again how 'vote for me or you're racist' fares with a country that feels sneered at, humiliated, impoverished, angry and ignored.

If you listen to Michael Moore, you need to listen to this. It's the same basic message. I know it sounds like black pilling, but you guys don't get black pilled nearly enough on politics, just football. If you were as critical of your own politics as you are about our poor lost keeper, you'd look directly at some of these obvious truths.

I got basically a perfect outcome for my long term hopes for our political future. The GOP side is so lucky in its enemies it needs to check itself as much as its opposition, because they have not strategized themselves into this situation. No, they have blundered into it.

Imagine a slick young guy or some reassuring Dar type bringing a unity message through the GOP with legal weed and a pathway to medicare for all, coupled with a continued renewal of American manufacturing, agriculture, and mining and a rhetorical beatdown of Wall Street (with a wink and a nod to his money base.) Trumpism minus Trump, basically. Krusty will run again in 2024 if he can. You better hope it's him again.

"Have at You!"

"Gesundheit!"
 
I am critical of Democrats and liberals, just as I always have been toward Republicans and conservatives (just ask @mezzrow ) - and I understand that many of you identify profoundly with the former, to the extant that even abstract non-personal criticism feels like a grievous assault on your ego and honour.

But that is a problem for you to work out, not me.
Let's assume this abstract, non-personal criticism is what you intend. Is it your contention that a dozen or more, quite likely many more, who have responded over the years that your words are received in a way other than you intend not simply a problem for the general "you, members of Current Affairs Forum at GOT" but Abe as well?
 
I got basically a perfect outcome for my long term hopes for our political future. The GOP side is so lucky in its enemies it needs to check itself as much as its opposition, because they have not strategized themselves into this situation. No, they have blundered into it.


I don't know how you can see it this way. If you were to look at it as a purely team sport with no other repurcussions, it's good for the Republican party in terms of electoral outcomes. But it's 'kin terrible for America. Trump has steamrolled all democratic norms and has convinced tens of millions of Americans that every election that they lose from here on in is rigged. We have a president literally bunkering up in the White House ignoring a fatal pandemic that has killed almost 300,000 Americans while he tweets a river of lies every day, and the Republican party are happily appeasing him and going along with it.

This isn't normal, and the precedent that has been set has all sorts of implications for the future of America. No idea what the GOP is going to look like in a few years now that it realises the crap-eating madness it can get away with, but it is already a long way from its supposed values and getting farther. But hey, at least the red team wins. Yay.
 
If you listen to Michael Moore, you need to listen to this. It's the same basic message. I know it sounds like black pilling, but you guys don't get black pilled nearly enough on politics, just football. If you were as critical of your own politics as you are about our poor lost keeper, you'd look directly at some of these obvious truths.

I got basically a perfect outcome for my long term hopes for our political future. The GOP side is so lucky in its enemies it needs to check itself as much as its opposition, because they have not strategized themselves into this situation. No, they have blundered into it.

Imagine a slick young guy or some reassuring Dar type bringing a unity message through the GOP with legal weed and a pathway to medicare for all, coupled with a continued renewal of American manufacturing, agriculture, and mining and a rhetorical beatdown of Wall Street (with a wink and a nod to his money base.) Trumpism minus Trump, basically. Krusty will run again in 2024 if he can. You better hope it's him again.

"Have at You!"

"Gesundheit!"
Sneak back a few million pages, @mezzrow. You'll see many variants on this very message.

If "your side" has become legal weed, Medicare for All, an improved economy in all sectors and a rhetorical beat down of Wall Street then the GOP has simply appropriated the Dem platform.

I salute your conversion.

Btw, if I were a betting man I'd rather be in the position of controlling the WH and House rather than just the Senate (perhaps) for my long-term political hopes.
 
Let's assume this abstract, non-personal criticism is what you intend. Is it your contention that a dozen or more, quite likely many more, who have responded over the years that your words are received in a way other than you intend not simply a problem for the general "you, members of Current Affairs Forum at GOT" but Abe as well?
@abelard I apologize. It's early and I typed that on my phone.

In short: if your "abstract, non-personal" criticism is not received as you intended by so many it is not also a problem for you?
 
Sneak back a few million pages, @mezzrow. You'll see many variants on this very message.

If "your side" has become legal weed, Medicare for All, an improved economy in all sectors and a rhetorical beat down of Wall Street then the GOP has simply appropriated the Dem platform.

I salute your conversion.

Btw, if I were a betting man I'd rather be in the position of controlling the WH and House rather than just the Senate (perhaps) for my long-term political hopes.
The GOP has simply appropriated the "old" Dem platform. The new platform is almost entirely based on identity rather than policy, and this is a disaster for the blue side, IMHO. The old platform was a damn strong platform, and Trump saw it just sitting there unused while 16 other GOP candidates tried to be Reagan again one more time. We can see how that turned out.

This thing the Democrats are trying to build now has a foundation of sand.

I am as wary as any of advice from those who don't share my viewpoint, but give it some thought and see what you come up with.

That platform is what the wokesters walked away from so they could play their reindeer games and intimidate the rest of the left (academia, media, non-profits, education) into line with their career plans. The unions are in the back yard looking for someone to talk to, and Trump was available. Meanwhile, social media is on fire.

You can win social media and lose the world. Don't get high on your own supply. If we can get past the polarization away from the center, we can actually come together and make a better world for those with less as well as those with more. Be as aware of how cynically you are being used by the left as you are of the right. There are no saints to be found in this realm.
 
If you listen to Michael Moore, you need to listen to this. It's the same basic message. I know it sounds like black pilling, but you guys don't get black pilled nearly enough on politics, just football. If you were as critical of your own politics as you are about our poor lost keeper, you'd look directly at some of these obvious truths.

I got basically a perfect outcome for my long term hopes for our political future. The GOP side is so lucky in its enemies it needs to check itself as much as its opposition, because they have not strategized themselves into this situation. No, they have blundered into it.

Imagine a slick young guy or some reassuring Dar type bringing a unity message through the GOP with legal weed and a pathway to medicare for all, coupled with a continued renewal of American manufacturing, agriculture, and mining and a rhetorical beatdown of Wall Street (with a wink and a nod to his money base.) Trumpism minus Trump, basically. Krusty will run again in 2024 if he can. You better hope it's him again.

"Have at You!"

"Gesundheit!"
Look how easy it was to convince Americans that Harris is a socialist.
 
The GOP has simply appropriated the "old" Dem platform. The new platform is almost entirely based on identity rather than policy, and this is a disaster for the blue side, IMHO. The old platform was a damn strong platform, and Trump saw it just sitting there unused while 16 other GOP candidates tried to be Reagan again one more time. We can see how that turned out.

This thing the Democrats are trying to build now has a foundation of sand.

I am as wary as any of advice from those who don't share my viewpoint, but give it some thought and see what you come up with.

That platform is what the wokesters walked away from so they could play their reindeer games and intimidate the rest of the left (academia, media, non-profits, education) into line with their career plans. The unions are in the back yard looking for someone to talk to, and Trump was available. Meanwhile, social media is on fire.

You can win social media and lose the world. Don't get high on your own supply. If we can get past the polarization away from the center, we can actually come together and make a better world for those with less as well as those with more. Be as aware of how cynically you are being used by the left as you are of the right. There are no saints to be found in this realm.
The "old" Democratic platform is what I still advocate and, again, I'm pleased for your conversion. I'm not wary of advice from well-intentioned members of any political party, @mezzrow. Yours is most welcome. Even if you aren't a saint. You love baseball and lust after Linda Ronstadt so we have enough common ground. lol

There's still loads of policy going on but it does not get attention due to the immediacy of outrage that fuels TV and social media as well as a Senate that refuses to do anything more than seat new Federal judges, many of whom are completely unqualified. I hope that latter point eats at you as it does me.

I would appreciate a return to a shared concern for working on behalf of all, rather than demonizing "the enemy" - who is most often your next-door neighbor who wants the same as you but approaches the matter from a different viewpoint (HORRORS!!).
 
The "old" Democratic platform is what I still advocate and, again, I'm pleased for your conversion. I'm not wary of advice from well-intentioned members of any political party, @mezzrow. Yours is most welcome. Even if you aren't a saint. You love baseball and lust after Linda Ronstadt so we have enough common ground. lol

There's still loads of policy going on but it does not get attention due to the immediacy of outrage that fuels TV and social media as well as a Senate that refuses to do anything more than seat new Federal judges, many of whom are completely unqualified. I hope that latter point eats at you as it does me.

I would appreciate a return to a shared concern for working on behalf of all, rather than demonizing "the enemy" - who is most often your next-door neighbor who wants the same as you but approaches the matter from a different viewpoint (HORRORS!!).
628x471.jpg
 
lol You boys choose the strangest pretexts to get upset about. Ok vereauxi, no more scary book lurnin' or historical parables about whether people better remember Marie Antoinette's charity work or being told to eat cake then, if it makes you feel more secure.

As you well know, this is a one-sided, tendentious filtering of what happened in West Virginia. Biden outperformed Clinton slightly - but this is like saying that rain is wet and falls from the sky because Clinton won the lowest number of total votes by a Democrat in West Virginia since the backlash against the First World War. So yes, Biden improved on 2016 (albeit almost imperceptibly on the NYT swing map), but Osama Bin Laden, the Ayatollah Khomeini and an inanimate carbon rod would have, too. Biden's performance was still worse than Obama in 2012 and especially 2008, when he took 7 counties. It was, in fact, the second lowest vote share for Democrat in the history of the state of West Virginia. And you are also ignoring that Trump increased both his share of the vote and his total votes by far, far more than Biden did. If you consider it progress when your opponent defeats you by an even greater margin than he did last time, knock yourself out. "Phenomenal", to borrow a phrase. And, far more relevant than West Virginia, you are also overlooking the further and likely permanent swings toward the Republicans in Iowa or Ohio - states that the Democrats once won routinely even as late as Obama.

Regarding Democrat support among African Americans, you are also ignoring both historical trends, momentum and overall turnout, all of which matter far more than vote share. Yes, the overall percentage is high, but when it swings even by a few points to Republicans the consequences are existential for the Democrats given the precarity of their coalition. This, as I'm sure you know, is exactly what happened in 2016, when Trump won the same share of the white vote as Romney but defeated Clinton through modest gains among African American and Latino voters. In 2020, it is looking like African-American voters again swung for Trump by about 3-5% (which is essentially two votes for Republicans - add one for them and subtract one for you). Absent an unprecedented surge against a historically unpopular opponent in the suburbs (by people who still voted Republican down ballot) and by young people (which the Party apparently has no interest in sustaining if the appointment of fossil fuel crony Cedric Richmond as environmental liaison is anything to go by), this shift alone would be enough to cost them an election. It did in 2016.

When we consider African American voter turnout, the picture is even more bleak. Take a look at what has happened in Cleveland, for example:
EnChQlgXYAA1Zfe

This is what the obliteration of the Democratic Party looks like.

Among Latino voters (who do not actually exist as a coherent voting bloc), it is even more stark. Tejanos swung to Trump by huge margins - 30 point swings in many counties. That's the headline but elsewhere the Democrats also lost ground badly. In Nevada for instance it is looking from the exit polls like Biden shed 10% among Hispanic voters. This is terrifying to anyone who actually understands how Democrats win elections, but not unexpected; after all, the Party took great pains to repudiate the only candidate who understands how to mobilise Latino voters, turned up their noses at his formidable grassroots organisation, spent the whole summer ignoring increasingly frantic warnings and pleas about Latino outreach, and then, when it was far too late, assumed that classic specimens like this could win them back:


Imagine just how contemptuous or indifferent to your party voters have to be to swing toward Donald Trump, a man who spent four years demonising immigrants from South of the border, calling them rapists, accusing them of being unable to judge impartially... And then the Democrats lost significant ground to him. Has it occurred to you yet to genuinely attempt to understand why that is? If you honestly think people don't understand the insinuation when the most salient question as they're queued up for food handouts is who they voted for - or, that implications of the elites' collective guilt-induced hysteria and competitive rites of wokeness don't nonetheless filter through to people who don't know who Kendi or Robin di Angelo are - or, how people who've just lost their small businesses or their homes or their ability to feed their children can be expected respond to being told that the most urgent problem in America is their lack of contrition for oppressing Barack Obama and Kamala Harris's children... well, lets just say, liberals' extraordinary talent at keeping their heads beneath the sand is yet another reason why we can state with such certainty that the future is so bleak for the Democrats. In ceremonies of the horseman, even the pawn must hold a grudge.

None of this has not gone unnoticed among conservatives (who virtually nobody here reads or understands). They have started to realise, far, far sooner than the Democrats, that a decisive bloc of Latino and African-American voters will vote along class lines when given the option, giving them to keys to govern virtually unopposed. Democrats think they've won some epic victory against the final video game boss, but the truth is, against Trump they were playing on easy mode. The Republicans have far more room to grow than the Democrats, who maxxed out their turnout and still lost down-ballot while barely defeating an impossibly weak opponent. They will never again get to campaign against a pandemic, a depression and a historically unpopular President who spend his airtime blubbering that Grayson Carter was very unfair to him when he wasn't insulting the very voters who nonetheless swung for him. The Republicans know this, and will run a ruthless, disciplined, largely colourblind campaign for nationalism, patriotism, pride and solidarity, and against clueless, condescending, prosperous liberal know-it-alls. The script is familiar, and they've recited it with great effect since Nixon. They will call themselves the Party of the Working Class, which is grotesque but against the post-Obama Democrats, still the more plausible claim to the mantle. And they can cite the very tangible material gains accrued to the lowest income bracket under Trump (and if you're bursting at the seams to tell me that Trump wasn't personally responsible, you're correct and it doesn't matter). In 2022 + 2024, the Republicans will restore their standing among rich white suburbanites (whose 2020 aberration the post-Obama sold out every other element of their coalition for) and continue expanding their gains with non-college educated whites, African Americans and Latinos (many of whom will also once again cease to vote). The appearance of authenticity is the most important currency there is in American politics, and against this, once Biden and Sanders are out to pasture, the only Democrats with any national profile act like they're auditioning to play the villains in Office Space. If you let the RNC choose their own opponent, Harris, Buttigieg and Warren would top every single list.

Stamp your feet, gnash and wail, filter the polls and keep calling me playground names or insulting my 'intellectual complexity' (PS Lol!) to collect your Pavlovian dopamine rewards from the SteveBots, if it soothes you. It doesn't matter. It changes nothing. It is a certainty that the Democrats will lose the House in 2022, and two years later when West Virginia, Montana and Ohio go red, they'll have lost the Senate for a generation, if not permanently. And most likely the Presidency too, without Trump to drive turnout and after Biden does nothing (or, better yet, does nothing save for waiving college debt by fiat) and the Party's clueless functionaries, grifters and obedient base toss up some hilariously tone-deaf West Wing kayfabe tag team like Harris and Buttigieg to test once again how 'vote for me or you're racist' fares with a country that feels sneered at, humiliated, impoverished, angry and ignored.

That's the point about these snowflakes. They "feel" all those things. Doesn't mean they're right

Pretty much every Trumper I know feels "threatened" no matter how much money they have - some very rich, and some very poor. But they all do have one thing in common though.
 
Sort of, with the understanding that "socialism" over here is actually capitalism with a generous state subsidy to chosen individuals and businesses. It's all about whom you choose to subsidize.
yea, that's my point.
Harris is not a socialist but got painted as one by the GOP and no one on the right questioned it.
So Dems could run the most suitable, moderate, appealing candidate and they'd be pilloried for being a socialist or AOC's puppet or whatever and the red hats would eat it up.
There's tons of room for compromise but the republicans have realized that sensational extremism is the easiest way to get and keep power. Compromise is weakness. When half of the country sees the way McConnell manipulated the supreme court as a victory and something to emulate, we are in trouble.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top