The 2 years since Martinez left.

[Blues Harp]

Legacy of martinez? What legacy?? in the history of our club where real legends such as Catterick, Kendall, and Royle actually WON trophies Martinez will be a minor footnote. Close thread and refer to the Belgian manager one.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

The one thing I will say in Roberto's favour, at least he went out to try and win games, he never went looking for a draw. Now, he failed miserably seasons 2 and 3 because we couldn't defend but the 'philosophy'(hate that word) at least was to attack and try to win. Not this utter rubbish we watch now that has no intention of trying to win, problem is both approaches have yielded the same performances and results.

I honestly think a balanced approach is much better. Being able to set out your stall depending on the opposition is important tactically. Martinez had no flexibility

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

I've always had a theory that Robertos 'Road To Damascus' moment was when Chelsea with Costa put 6 past us at GP. Almost from that moment we started passing sideways and forgot that we were succeeding by getting the ball forward at pace and flair. Bobby needed a defensive coach to help him,and the funds to strengthen with players who understood his philosophy. His ideal and ambition was great,but some sub standard players couldn't be arsed working in his system, or weren't good enough, so they downed tools.

Martinez had total control. He chose his path.

 

[Boss_Rarkley]

Gotta love the WUMS on here

Martinez was chod - 2 11x place finishes with Lukaku in the side ffs.

 

[EFC78]

To get the 2013/14 season out of the way in case it is brought up again...that was an excellent season and one of the best in the last 20 years. Martinez managed us excellently until the Crystal Palace home game where the wheels fell off, and the Arsenal 3-0 was probably the performance of the last 20 years. However, I still think it was surpassed by the 07/08 season where we came 5th, got to the Semi Finals of the League Cup and the last 16 of the UEFA Cup all in the same season.

On to the final 2 seasons though and some of this even relates to the 13/14 season:

• Managed us to 2x 4-0 defeats at Anfield, one where we didn't have a single shot on target all game. These were the 2 worst derby defeats since 1982 - 34 years earlier.
• Stood on the sidelines as we lost 3-0 to a Southampton side who had just lost 5 straight games, and didn't bother to make a single substitution.
• The above match was part of a run where we won only once in 13 in all competitions, drawing at home and losing away to a Hull side that got relegated. The one win came at home against QPR who finished bottom.
• 2015/16 - "Martinez has presided over the worst home record in Everton's history this season, losing eight of their 18 games so far." (from the BBC). He was gone before the 19th home game.
• His sides constantly threw away leads in the final 15 minutes of games from commanding positions - 2-0 up v Arsenal in 14/15, conceded 2 goals in 7 minutes, lost 2 goal leads v Bournemouth and Chelsea, only to go ahead in injury time and then concede again with the last kick of the game. 2-0 up v West Ham after 77 mins, lost 3-2.
• His sides threw away cup games from winning positions - 3-2 up on aggregate v Kiev, lost 6-4, 3-1 up on aggregate v Man City, lost 4-3.
• His team got booed off in the Wembley Semi Final
• Our fans were that disinterested with the 15/16 season that hundreds (if not more) preferred to sell their away tickets to Leicester fans for that humiliation, and only 750 made the trip up to Sunderland which is unheard of for our away following.

The rewriting of history where Martinez is concerned needs to stop.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

To get the 2013/14 season out of the way in case it is brought up again...that was an excellent season and one of the best in the last 20 years. Martinez managed us excellently until the Crystal Palace home game where the wheels fell off, and the Arsenal 3-0 was probably the performance of the last 20 years. However, I still think it was surpassed by the 07/08 season where we came 5th, got to the Semi Finals of the League Cup and the last 16 of the UEFA Cup all in the same season.

On to the final 2 seasons though and some of this even relates to the 13/14 season:

• Managed us to 2x 4-0 defeats at Anfield, one where we didn't have a single shot on target all game. These were the 2 worst derby defeats since 1982 - 34 years earlier.
• Stood on the sidelines as we lost 3-0 to a Southampton side who had just lost 5 straight games, and didn't bother to make a single substitution.
• The above match was part of a run where we won only once in 13 in all competitions, drawing at home and losing away to a Hull side that got relegated. The one win came at home against QPR who finished bottom.
• 2015/16 - "Martinez has presided over the worst home record in Everton's history this season, losing eight of their 18 games so far." (from the BBC). He was gone before the 19th home game.
• His sides constantly threw away leads in the final 15 minutes of games from commanding positions - 2-0 up v Arsenal in 14/15, conceded 2 goals in 7 minutes, lost 2 goal leads v Bournemouth and Chelsea, only to go ahead in injury time and then concede again with the last kick of the game. 2-0 up v West Ham after 77 mins, lost 3-2.
• His sides threw away cup games from winning positions - 3-2 up on aggregate v Kiev, lost 6-4, 3-1 up on aggregate v Man City, lost 4-3.
• His team got booed off in the Wembley Semi Final
• Our fans were that disinterested with the 15/16 season that hundreds (if not more) preferred to sell their away tickets to Leicester fans for that humiliation, and only 750 made the trip up to Sunderland which is unheard of for our away following.

The rewriting of history where Martinez is concerned needs to stop.

But apart from that he was phenomenal!

 

[goodisonopheliac]

I wonder what we'd have been like under him if we hadn't had Lukaku.

 

[davek]

I'll tell you why there's still so much debate about RM: he showed the way, the scales fell from all our supporters eyes on what was possible for us playing-wise. Then, when it couldn't be sustained and it fell apart, the same people hated themselves for believing in football again and turned on him like a he was a red headed stepson.

The legacy is this though: we stand at the crossroads again this summer when a choice has to be made on a new manager and RMs spectre plays a big part in the debate in terms of what we want in a manager. The issue of style invades every discussion of who we require and RMs period here has left a big impression in that respect.

 

[AndyC]

I'll tell you why there's still so much debate about RM: he showed the way, the scales fell from all our supporters eyes on what was possible for us playing-wise. Then, when it couldn't be sustained and it fell apart, the same people hated themselves for believing in football again and turned on him like a he was a red headed stepson.

The legacy is this though: we stand at the crossroads again this summer when a choice has to be made on a new manager and RMs spectre plays a big part in the debate in terms of what we want in a manager. The issue of style invades every discussion of who we require and RMs period here has left a big impression in that respect.

Difficult to argue this as in that first Martinez season, right up until the disastrous derby at Anfield, we did indeed watch some terrific footie.
And by the time the semi-final against Untied came around, he had largely lost the crowd.

Yes, we yearn for a brand of football along the lines of that first season, but for it to be sustained and built upon, a dynasty to be beckoned in for years to come with the club truly regaining the School of Science status of the 1960's and mid 1980's.

 

[Blues Harp]

Not everyone wanted him here in the first place, me included after him relegating Wigan but I was prepared to support the team and see what happened. Yes we got 72 points but the capitlulation at the endcost us a champions league place. The start of the following season increased my doubts...3-6 to Chelsea, throwing away a 2 goal lead to Arsenal, a 2-3 home defeat to palace ..from there it was all downhill. The guy couldn't hack it when things went wrong and had no plan b full stop. A small footnote in our history but no Damascene moments I'm afraid.

 

[davek]

Difficult to argue this as in that first Martinez season, right up until the disastrous derby at Anfield, we did indeed watch some terrific footie.
And by the time the semi-final against Untied came around, he had largely lost the crowd.

Yes, we yearn for a brand of football along the lines of that first season, but for it to be sustained and built upon, a dynasty to be beckoned in for years to come with the club truly regaining the School of Science status of the 1960's and mid 1980's.

Yep. That's what I'm driving at. There's no mileage in the Martinez debate over success/failure. It's obvious (just like all our managers after Royle) it was failure.

However, there's a greater underlying discussion concerning what conclusions we draw from that three year experience. For me it was worth the whole of the 11 years of Moyes' period in charge as a means of understanding what we need to get back to in terms of identity and how we define ourselves as a club. So obvious the first season is held up and the last two seasons downplayed. I view it in retrospect as a break in the clouds that allowed us to bask for a while until the storms arrived once more. Too fleeting to be significant in and of itself, but nevertheless a (hopefully) dress rehearsal for some special days in the sun to come under a better manager who can also benefit from financial backing.

 

[GBH73]

Just shows how far we’ve fallen when some fans are still praising Martinez for one half decent season. Gordon Lee did better and nobody harps on about his achievements. Even Moyes took us to a cup final.

 

[Stan Lee Park]

Did it slip your attention that the teams they managed had £300M pumped into them? Or that both of those two mutts could barely win a cup game between them in two seasons?

You obviously think Bobby would use £200 million wisely.
It's an interesting theory.

 

[Stan Lee Park]

You just need to look at the funds available;

Signings over 10mil made under Martinez -- Lukaku, McCarthy, Niasse (Mori was 9.5mil but a 50% profit could have been made on him too).
Lukaku was a major success
McCarthy would have been a success but for injuries and was heavily linked to Arsenal.

Signings over 10mil made under Koeman -- Schneiderlin, Bolasie, Williams, Klaassen, Keane, Pickford, Sigurdsson.
Pickford has been a major success.

Signings over 10mil made under Allardyce -- Tosun, Walcott.
Jury is out.


Quite clearly Martinez spent larger transfer fees far more wisely than Koeman.

I think if Martinez was given the 190mil Koeman spent on those 7 signings above he would have theoretically signed superior players to fit into his system and would therefore have had far greater success.

Add on the 50mil odd Allardyce has spent on two players who wouldn't be first choices in the top 6 and its hard to argue against that.

It's a nice theory, but one that will hopefully never be tested.

 

[Albro]

Id take his last two seasons over this hoofball rubbish we're witnessing now.