Talksport and Fake Everton fans

[Khalekan]

WORST. EVERTON. MANAGER. EVER.

Bingo

 

[Gladystweet]

WORST. EVERTON. MANAGER. EVER.

He's bad like, but did you ever see Mike Walker?

 

[NeutralPie]

Did that comparison really just get made? I'm convinced you're actually @johnjoeefc just agreeing with their self.

He will ensure (at best) that we remain an also-ran club as long as he's here. He will not achieve anything of note and will be responsible for wasted years and wasted money.

His approach to football is actually very similar to Mourinho's, and they actually share a lot in common, they are undoubtedly both pragmatists, they are a little bit better than people give them credit for when it comes to getting the best out of top players, yeah they are defensive minded, both are a little brash, but both are quality when it comes to digging out results, and both get their fair share of criticism when it comes to performances. They are actually very good friends too.

The biggest difference really is the calibre of clubs they have managed. Mourinho took over Porto, won the CL, you have to give him amazing credit for that, but the draw in the knock out stages opened up for him massively that year, he played a poor Man United team in the first knock out game, and got through with a late winner, with Mourinho famously running down the touchline, then after some freak results in other games that year, it meant he got to play Deportivo La Coruna, Lyon & Monaco en route to winning. Fair enough he still had to beat those teams, and he did, but were it not for that run he might not be where he is today.

I'm not trying to diminish Mourinho's achievements here, but sometimes in football you need a bit of luck, and you need to be in the right place at the right time, and after Mourinho won the CL for Porto, he won the oil lottery with Chelsea, then took over a dominant Inter team which had some world class defenders, and guys like Sneijder and Eto'o, again he done great to win the CL again, then he got the Madrid job, and now has the Man United gig.

Allardyce has simply never had those opportunities, the biggest opportunity he has had before Everton was Newcastle, and they kicked him out after 19 games or something, so they hardly really gave him a chance. But he has performed miracles in his own way, just not at the same calibre of clubs. And has over-achieved almost everywhere (when given a bit of time).

And actually, all those clubs he managed found life after Big Sam very difficult. Most of them getting relegated within a year or two of him leaving (Blackburn, Newcastle, Bolton, Sunderland, Palace struggling this year). The only club that pushed on without him were West Ham, but even that only lasted a year, now they are back to struggling again.

So you may well already have a Mourinho calibre manager on your hands, this is the biggest club he has managed at, he just needs the opportunity, and with a pre-season under his belt and a bit of faith he could take you places.

I think we are guilty sometimes of overlooking what he has achieved, because he's English, because he is a bit shall we say overweight, because he is linked with struggling clubs and playing long ball (which is a lazy generalisation) we think "oh it is only big Sam", but he brings a wealth of experience with him and has over achieved almost everywhere he has gone.

He's probably destined for the exit door at the end of the season anyway, difficult for anyone to do their job properly with so much negativity, but in case he does stay I think try and support him, give the guy a break and you might be pleasantly surprised with what he can do next season.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Is that not the point he's making though? That these opinions aren't diverse, and are all in favour of Allardyce? And that as he is under the impression (as am I) that the vast majority of Everton fans are not supportive of the manager, this seems rather suspect?

Just to be clear, i'm not saying they are plants, only that I understand the reason for the question.

There is of course the added possibility that this particular Forum is more anti Allardyce than the average Evertonian, and therefore not representative of Everton fans worldwide. I don't know the answer to this.

I don't really visit any other Everton forum so have no idea what the general feeling is elsewhere. I haven't been to a match since November, am now retired and don't exactly have an over active social life, so I don't get the opportunity to mix with other Evertonian's on a day to day basis. All I can say is those few that I have spoken to are very anti Allardyce, and feel that this is the worst season that they can remember. One of them is my mate's dad (and I'm nearly 60) so god knows how long he's been going the game. Having said that they have, without exception, all renewed their season tickets for next year.

 

[Barnfred 55]

you haven't got a long memory

Kendall 97-98 - Ward, Thomson, Tiler, Madar, etc
Any Smith Squad - Bakayoko, Alexanderson, Pembridge, etc
Early Moyes squads - Kilbane, Li Tie, Bent, etc

All ten times worse than this squad

This squad is probably the 7th best squad in the league. I say probably because Leicester have a few players that I would take tomorrow, but I don't look round any of the other squads with any real envy.

 

[Lanolin]

I never thought we would be certainties for relegation but anyone who doesn't acknowledge we were struggling massively and could have ended up in a potential relegation battle is either deluding themselves or has a selective memory.

We were conceding 2+ a game (did so for 9 consecutive games), the system wasn't working, the players effort was questionable and we were being comfortably dealt with by sides that we should have been doing better against. We also had relegation away form and the 3rd most goals conceded in the league even after the 4-0 West Ham win - i.e a relegation level defence.

If you want to overlook the 5-1 Atalanta game fine, but what about the away game? Our defence got absolutely terrorised by Andrea Petagna who was given MOTM. He scored 5 in 34 last season, and has 4 in 28 this, and a number of our fans, including myself were thinking he must be a decent striker given how easily he bullied our defence. Truth is he's bang average and our weak defence got given the run around by him.

We had lost 5 games in 7 under Unsworth when Moshiri decided to go with Allardyce. If you take out the 2 qualifiers against Ruzomberok and Split who let's be honest are not playing at a high standard, as well as the Sunderland Cup game as they're the worst side in the Championship, you can see how bad a situation we were in.

5 wins in 20, after discounting the games against sides i'd expect our Under 23's to beat.

We were struggling, certainly. I just hate the constant use of those 2 games within 3 days of eachother as some sort of evidence that we were going down or getting worse.

I'm not saying overlook them, just trying to add some context. As I said, the only difference between Southampton and Bournemouth or Burnley away was the amount of chances they actually took. The performances were every bit as abject but some people just seem to see the scoreline and think they're totally different games. You've used the example of Petagna but exactly the same thing could be said for Ashley Barnes who ran us ragged and has only scored 18 top flight goals at the age of 28 or Troy Deeney who scored his first goal from open play this season against us at the end of February.

 

[Brisan123]

His approach to football is actually very similar to Mourinho's, and they actually share a lot in common, they are undoubtedly both pragmatists, they are a little bit better than people give them credit for when it comes to getting the best out of top players, yeah they are defensive minded, both are a little brash, but both are quality when it comes to digging out results, and both get their fair share of criticism when it comes to performances. They are actually very good friends too.

The biggest difference really is the calibre of clubs they have managed. Mourinho took over Porto, won the CL, you have to give him amazing credit for that, but the draw in the knock out stages opened up for him massively that year, he played a poor Man United team in the first knock out game, and got through with a late winner, with Mourinho famously running down the touchline, then after some freak results in other games that year, it meant he got to play Deportivo La Coruna, Lyon & Monaco en route to winning. Fair enough he still had to beat those teams, and he did, but were it not for that run he might not be where he is today.

I'm not trying to diminish Mourinho's achievements here, but sometimes in football you need a bit of luck, and you need to be in the right place at the right time, and after Mourinho won the CL for Porto, he won the oil lottery with Chelsea, then took over a dominant Inter team which had some world class defenders, and guys like Sneijder and Eto'o, again he done great to win the CL again, then he got the Madrid job, and now has the Man United gig.

Allardyce has simply never had those opportunities, the biggest opportunity he has had before Everton was Newcastle, and they kicked him out after 19 games or something, so they hardly really gave him a chance. But he has performed miracles in his own way, just not at the same calibre of clubs. And has over-achieved almost everywhere (when given a bit of time).

And actually, all those clubs he managed found life after Big Sam very difficult. Most of them getting relegated within a year or two of him leaving (Blackburn, Newcastle, Bolton, Sunderland, Palace struggling this year). The only club that pushed on without him were West Ham, but even that only lasted a year, now they are back to struggling again.

So you may well already have a Mourinho calibre manager on your hands, this is the biggest club he has managed at, he just needs the opportunity, and with a pre-season under his belt and a bit of faith he could take you places.

I think we are guilty sometimes of overlooking what he has achieved, because he's English, because he is a bit shall we say overweight, because he is linked with struggling clubs and playing long ball (which is a lazy generalisation) we think "oh it is only big Sam", but he brings a wealth of experience with him and has over achieved almost everywhere he has gone.

He's probably destined for the exit door at the end of the season anyway, difficult for anyone to do their job properly with so much negativity, but in case he does stay I think try and support him, give the guy a break and you might be pleasantly surprised with what he can do next season.

So let me get this straight
You are saying Allardyce is a Manager of the same Calibre as Mourinho.
I don’t agree and neither do the boards of Porto , Chelsea , Inter Milan , Real Madrid and Manchester United.
I think you have lost any credibility you had by saying Sam is of the same Calibre of Manager as Mourinho

 

[Lanolin]

There is of course the added possibility that this particular Forum is more anti Allardyce than the average Evertonian, and therefore not representative of Everton fans worldwide. I don't know the answer to this.

I don't really visit any other Everton forum so have no idea what the general feeling is elsewhere. I haven't been to a match since November, am now retired and don't exactly have an over active social life, so I don't get the opportunity to mix with other Evertonian's on a day to day basis. All I can say is those few that I have spoken to are very anti Allardyce, and feel that this is the worst season that they can remember. One of them is my mate's dad (and I'm nearly 60) so god knows how long he's been going the game. Having said that they have, without exception, all renewed their season tickets for next year.

I'm not just talking about this forum though. I have a ST and go to a decent number of aways and the chat from people I go with, the people I meet, and the general conversation I hear all tells me that the majority are against Allardyce. Social Media is the same, so it seems fair to say this forum is at least reasonably representative.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I never thought we would be certainties for relegation but anyone who doesn't acknowledge we were struggling massively and could have ended up in a potential relegation battle is either deluding themselves or has a selective memory

Mate. I wouldn't argue with that in the slightest. But "could" is the key word here and we were only a third of the way into the season when we switched the panic button.

I'm one of those who don't actually believe Allardyce is the biggest issue here. He is just a symptom in my opinion.

He's made a number of claims now that his tenure here has been a success, as his remit was simply to avoid relegation. From the clubs lack of response to these claims one can only assume that he is speaking the truth.

The fact that our board appointed somebody, on the 10th highest salary in world football, with such a low success measure is an absolute disgrace. The fact that the decision was made with 6 months of the season remaining is just mind boggling.

The club is in a mess from top to bottom. It's quite scary really.

 

[NeutralPie]

So let me get this straight
You are saying Allardyce is a Manager of the same Calibre as Mourinho.
I don’t agree and neither do the boards of Porto , Chelsea , Inter Milan , Real Madrid and Manchester United.
I think you have lost any credibility you had by saying Sam is of the same Calibre of Manager as Mourinho

I said he "may be" if given the opportunity. Everyone needs a chance, and Allardyce has simply never had the breaks that Mourinho has had. But both have over achieved almost everywhere they've been. You have to give Mourinho credit because has taken his chances at big clubs, so he clearly has the edge because he has proved it, Allardyce hasn't had the breaks yet to manage a big club before Everton, but they both do have very similar philosophies and both attract similar criticisms.

 

[ToffeeDan]

I'm no apologist for Sam but jeez, what passed for a manager and a group of disgruntled players before was the REAL problem. If you don't think Sam is the solution then fine but the problem was Perplexed Ronny.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I said he "may be" if given the opportunity. Everyone needs a chance, and Allardyce has simply never had the breaks that Mourinho has had. But both have over achieved almost everywhere they've been. You have to give Mourinho credit because has taken his chances at big clubs, so he clearly has the edge because he has proved it, Allardyce hasn't had the breaks yet to manage a big club before Everton, but they both do have very similar philosophies and both attract similar criticisms.

Ha ha.

Go on. Which club do you support?

 

[degsy]

This is actually as spot on as you can get and one of the most intelligent comments I've seen on the forum for a long time. Unfortunately a witch hunt started against Sam from almost day one, it got worse following some bad form after his good start and it's at a point now of nearly no return for most fans.

Strangely I actually think he would have had more of a chance keeping his job if he got worse results but managed to keep us up on the last day of the season. He's been a victim of his one success because he got us out of danger so early and was expected to make this poor team into top 6 challengers instantly.

You can see by responses on these forums for anyone showing any kind of loyalty to Sam that they get shot down almost instantly. Why? Because we are supporting a manager who has taken us from a very bad place (both in league position and performances) to a very steady place and in a position to kick on next season.

Most neutrals would say Sam has done well since coming in. Not amazingly but certainly at least met expectations and therefore deserves a chance to see out his contract. Most evertonians think he has done terribly and needs getting rid of asap. It makes no sense to me.

Are you and your room mate related to that Jon Snow fella who knows nothing?

 

[NeutralPie]

Ha ha.

Go on. Which club do you support?

Leyton Orient. And we'll certainly take Big Sam off your hands if you want. But I'm not sure if we could afford his wages, nevermind his buffet bill.

 

[Saint Domingo]

His approach to football is actually very similar to Mourinho's, and they actually share a lot in common, they are undoubtedly both pragmatists, they are a little bit better than people give them credit for when it comes to getting the best out of top players, yeah they are defensive minded, both are a little brash, but both are quality when it comes to digging out results, and both get their fair share of criticism when it comes to performances. They are actually very good friends too.

The biggest difference really is the calibre of clubs they have managed. Mourinho took over Porto, won the CL, you have to give him amazing credit for that, but the draw in the knock out stages opened up for him massively that year, he played a poor Man United team in the first knock out game, and got through with a late winner, with Mourinho famously running down the touchline, then after some freak results in other games that year, it meant he got to play Deportivo La Coruna, Lyon & Monaco en route to winning. Fair enough he still had to beat those teams, and he did, but were it not for that run he might not be where he is today.

I'm not trying to diminish Mourinho's achievements here, but sometimes in football you need a bit of luck, and you need to be in the right place at the right time, and after Mourinho won the CL for Porto, he won the oil lottery with Chelsea, then took over a dominant Inter team which had some world class defenders, and guys like Sneijder and Eto'o, again he done great to win the CL again, then he got the Madrid job, and now has the Man United gig.

Allardyce has simply never had those opportunities, the biggest opportunity he has had before Everton was Newcastle, and they kicked him out after 19 games or something, so they hardly really gave him a chance. But he has performed miracles in his own way, just not at the same calibre of clubs. And has over-achieved almost everywhere (when given a bit of time).

And actually, all those clubs he managed found life after Big Sam very difficult. Most of them getting relegated within a year or two of him leaving (Blackburn, Newcastle, Bolton, Sunderland, Palace struggling this year). The only club that pushed on without him were West Ham, but even that only lasted a year, now they are back to struggling again.

So you may well already have a Mourinho calibre manager on your hands, this is the biggest club he has managed at, he just needs the opportunity, and with a pre-season under his belt and a bit of faith he could take you places.

I think we are guilty sometimes of overlooking what he has achieved, because he's English, because he is a bit shall we say overweight, because he is linked with struggling clubs and playing long ball (which is a lazy generalisation) we think "oh it is only big Sam", but he brings a wealth of experience with him and has over achieved almost everywhere he has gone.

He's probably destined for the exit door at the end of the season anyway, difficult for anyone to do their job properly with so much negativity, but in case he does stay I think try and support him, give the guy a break and you might be pleasantly surprised with what he can do next season.

You really do hate Jose don’t you. So would I if he’d crushed 28 years of dreams all at once with a Chelsea B team just as you were getting your 13/14 champions t shirt made.