Current Affairs Stocks and shares and stuff

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

LOL, i am not reading gold standard rubbish. We moved away from the gold standard long before we “moved away from the gold standard.” Not everyone likes Niall Ferguson but he has a good book on this matter.

Check the charts for yourself instead of being so dismissive. I only said it was my opinion.

 

[nikom court]

Yes, indeed just today I've purchased shares in two large US held companies. But my trades are all vanilla. I probably should/have punt/ed $1,000 or so on BTC back in the day, but investing is a secondary interest for me, and my personality makes it easier for me to spot value than to predict and account for trends. So I speak plainly (you can read upthread and see this): crypto is a wonderful speculative play, but it has no underlying value.

if you cant see how wrong this is,
you are totally blinkered mate,
it doesnt matter what anybody says in response!
#havefunstayingpoor

 

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

if you cant see how wrong this is,
you are totally blinkered mate,
it doesnt matter what anybody says in response!
#havefunstayingpoor

ngmi

 

[Brisan123]

But thats the market.

There's no guarantees.

Every time you make an investment you are told
The value of your investment may fall
Greedy people who think they are entitled to profit for no work
The same happened in 2008 when banking shares went from 20euro to a few cents
People complained they lost their pension
They knew the risk and took it
Putting it in risk free investments was not good enough for them
Never invest money you can’t afford to lose

 

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

Every time you make an investment you are told
The value of your investment may fall
Greedy people who think they are entitled to profit for no work
The same happened in 2008 when banking shares went from 20euro to a few cents
People complained they lost their pension
They knew the risk and took it
Putting it in risk free investments was not good enough for them
Never invest money you can’t afford to lose

Rule number 1

 

[SerenityNigh]

if you cant see how wrong this is,
you are totally blinkered mate,
it doesnt matter what anybody says in response!
#havefunstayingpoor

I appreciate your concern for my financial well-being

 

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

I appreciate your concern for my financial well-being

Maybe if you weren't so dismissive and snarky

 

[SerenityNigh]

Maybe if you weren't so dismissive and snarky

Be true to yourself. I do appreciate your conversation on crypto. Still befuddled at common views on it, but it makes more sense. What I can't get past is people seem to prefer it to traditional currencies (and so see it as some form of credit/currency) but then you agree it's too unstable to be used as credit/currency and really should be viewed as an asset/commodity (or is that only in the case of BTC?) If people called it crypto- gold/commodity/asset that would make more sense, but I don't see how you can have it both ways. (And I still disagree about the underlying valuation, but I don't think we'll make headway on that issue.)

 

[mill]

Different methods of consensus protocols? They all achieve the same outcome - consensus - but there are pros/cons to each method. For example Proof of Work consumes an awful lot of electricity and in turn pollutes the environment, some methods are more susceptible to 51% attacks. This is almost a separate topic in itself

The fundamental idea behind a coin however is not always dependent on what consensus protocol you use. For example ethereum is planning to switch from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake but their value proposition will not change in any meaningful way.

Much like a business, a coin/token can bring real value to society. Take XRP as an example, while it has many flaws in my opinion, they are looking to improve cross border settlements. They can do what it takes SWIFT 3-5 days to do in 3-5 seconds.

I must add, I think the majority of coins are what are called 'promise coins' in that they promise to solve certain problems but never end up doing anything apart from being a wildly volatile asset. I would compare them to the many many startups that fail.

Yes I agree, people think that Bitcoin will be used as a currency for day to day purchases but this will simply never happen.

Government issued currency, FIAT, is based on trust. In my opinion since we moved away from the gold standard it has allowed for the widespread printing and abusing of currencies. This is why we see wages stagnating while the costs of houses etc have skyrocketed. There is an interesting website with some eye opening charts that you may find interesting - https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

I know it’s quite neat to point to charts like that and assume that it’s all down to the fall of the gold standard but the period also coincides with the boomer generation coming of age and that particular cohort dominated for the next 40-60 years. You’ve also had the rise in globalisation, technology and automation etc. It’s way too simplistic to point to the end of the gold standard.

 

[mill]

Be true to yourself. I do appreciate your conversation on crypto. Still befuddled at common views on it, but it makes more sense. What I can't get past is people seem to prefer it to traditional currencies (and so see it as some form of credit/currency) but then you agree it's too unstable to be used as credit/currency and really should be viewed as an asset/commodity (or is that only in the case of BTC?) If people called it crypto- gold/commodity/asset that would make more sense, but I don't see how you can have it both ways. (And I still disagree about the underlying valuation, but I don't think we'll make headway on that issue.)

The way I approach it is this...

what is the intrinsic value of a Bitcoin?

 

[SerenityNigh]

The way I approach it is this...

what is the intrinsic value of a Bitcoin?

That's the question I can't answer.

1. Business value = ? I can't see that crypto produces anything new; it's not a share of an operating business
2. Technology value = ? if crypto is a more efficient means to transfer wealth, this has value, but then it seems that all crypto should have a similar value, at least in market cap; I can't understand why the valuations are so wildly different
3. Transactional value = ? if this becomes true then it becomes a stable credit/tender, but I don't think this is true at the moment
4. Asset value = Yes; not that I can determine how much this should be but it's clearly a valuable asset for speculators, although that's why it's also a bubble. And this is why #3 above (at least) is not true. I don't think it can be an asset and credit/currency at the same time.

 

[nikom court]

its funny seeing people howling at the moon about bitcoin.
intrinsic value,electricity,scam,tulips,blah,blah,blah,
its like kopites crying about BMD or jameses sex change,
you just dont get it and are going around in circles!
crack on!

 

[mill]

its funny seeing people howling at the moon about bitcoin.
intrinsic value,electricity,scam,tulips,blah,blah,blah,
its like kopites crying about BMD or jameses sex change,
you just dont get it and are going around in circles!
crack on!

I’m not howling at anything. I just understand the risks involved. I’m invested in blockchain, I’ve made a lot of money out of it.
But I’d like to understand what you think the intrinsic value is for a Bitcoin. What is your process for coming up with that valuation?

 

[peteblue]

I was reading that countries want to introduce their own crypto currencies, not Bitcoin, but something that is underwritten like paper currency by the issuing country, and get rid of all this mining etc etc. If they do that, then the world might be a slightly greener place without factories of computers eating up electricity.....

 

[nikom court]

"Countries"don't like bitcoin because they can't control it and print endless supplies of it.Everything of value in the 21st century runs on electricity, without electricity we would be finished,makes sense to have the most valuable and scarce asset running on electricity, just like the internet!