Steven Pienaar

[LinekersLegs]

I just think that the current manager basically throws certain players out in the cold once he gets to a certain point with them, Distin last season classic example, Howard similar, Pienaar now, McGeady same thing, not that i disagree with any of the decisions to get rid of them, but their doesn't seem to be much communication or respect going on when handling these situations

Genuinely think that IF your in with Martinez then he is your best mate, soon as your not he couldn't care less and contact becomes impossible

from memory didn't we puit a stop to Distin leaving in the January - yet don't believe he featured in any game and not even sure if he made the bench afterwards, that for me is just pure form from the management to someone who liek him or not had given a lot of years playing for the club

Iirc we blocked Distin's move as not only were they not going to give us a transfer fee but they didn't want to pay all his wages and wanted us to cover part of them and Distin himself didn't want to take the salary drop. Could have that wrong though.

However wasn't entirely happy anyway at reinforcing a potential rival (they finished level on points with us and at the time were struggling to field a pair of CBs) and weakening ourselves of injury backups just because Distin wasn't getting the game time he felt he deserved and had been a good player for us.

They sign a contract for a reason, if it is convenient to both parties to break it then great but don't think it poor managment to enforce it if it isn't.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, a player coming to the end of their peak playing days is an incredibly difficult situation to handle amicably, Martinez isn't the first and won't be the last manager to struggle with it.

 

[TraffordBlue]

Barry plays DM for us seemingly. McCarthy is often pushing forward. He needs huge improvements to his all round game. He is nowhere near the level of Kante, nowhere near. I've no problem with Barkley, he's doing his job, scoring and creating goals, class player. Is JM helping keep them out? No. Is he offering anything at the top end of the pitch? No. Nothing player.

Kante has had one good season, and McCarthy was excellent for us when we came 5th. Wonder if Kante would find it as easy if he was playing in a team that was 12th in the league and had Roberto Martinez as manager?

 

[sageyefc]

Kante has had one good season, and McCarthy was excellent for us when we came 5th. Wonder if Kante would find it as easy if he was playing in a team that was 12th in the league and had Roberto Martinez as manager?

Kantes probably been the best CM in the league this season

 

[TraffordBlue]

Kantes probably been the best CM in the league this season

I know. But he's playing for the side that's top of the table. Saint Domingo was demanding more goals and assists from McCarthy who is a defensive midfielder. If people expect an improvement from McCarthy's performances, I think that's fair, but I often see people expecting him to become a player he never will be as that isn't his role within the team and he's not capable of it.

I'm sure in an ideal world Mahrez for example would be a tough tackling midfielder to go along with his flair, skill and goal scoring prowess. But he's not in the team for that is he?

How many defensive midfielders have a good goal scoring and assists record? Kante has 1 more goal and 1 more assist than McCarthy having played 5 more games and he's been one of the players of the season. Defensive midfielders aren't in the team for that.

 

[sageyefc]

I know. But he's playing for the side that's top of the table. Saint Domingo was demanding more goals and assists from McCarthy who is a defensive midfielder. If people expect an improvement from McCarthy's performances, I think that's fair, but I often see people expecting him to become a player he never will be as that isn't his role within the team and he's not capable of it.

I'm sure in an ideal world Mahrez for example would be a tough tackling midfielder to go along with his flair, skill and goal scoring prowess. But he's not in the team for that is he?

How many defensive midfielders have a good goal scoring and assists record? Kante has 1 more goal and 1 more assist than McCarthy having played 5 more games and he's been one of the players of the season. Defensive midfielders aren't in the team for that.

Its not so much assists and goals imo, its his sheer lack of abilty on the ball other than a safe 5 yard pass. He doesn't show for the ball and when hes on it he has no idea what to do, even as a DM thats poor for the standard we're trying to achieve. He has his uses at times but its definitely a position that needs improvement especially with barry getting on

 

[Saint Domingo]

Kante has had one good season, and McCarthy was excellent for us when we came 5th. Wonder if Kante would find it as easy if he was playing in a team that was 12th in the league and had Roberto Martinez as manager?

Kante has a range of skills that McCarthy doesn't. He's far superior. I'll buy that McCarthy would improve under a better manager but players who can't pass forward don't go far. If he is the DM in our side then he's doing an awful job. If he's not the DM he's doing an awful job. McCarthy fans though like to play the game of claiming McCarthy is a DM whenever his attacking game is questioned, then claiming he is pushed up with Barry whenever our defensive record is brought up. Wherever he plays, he's not doing much.

 

[blueblue]

I wish Leicester well and I think that winning the league would be great for them and everybody else.

But, this season has been exceptional for them, they are in a bubble all season and are very well managed.
A lot of these are players who were fighting relegation last year.

I would be very confident that next season will be a far more difficult season for them and a real test of the players that have done so well this season.

 

[mkrudden]

He is saying he is fit and clearly showing that Martinez is not liked by him and probably several other players. Can't believe the disdain you are showing for a player with such a fantastic work-rate and who has been one of our strengths both under Moyes and initially Martinez.

You're joking though aren't you?
I love Pienaar, but he isn't getting a new contract because he's spent the last 2 years on the treatment table.
You know that right?

 

[eternal_defiance]

You're joking though aren't you?
I love Pienaar, but he isn't getting a new contract because he's spent the last 2 years on the treatment table.
You know that right?

Where did I say I want him to have a new contract? Fact is he is our best left sided midfielder and if he's fit why has he been overlooked so much? He is asking to go on loan. It's clear he is not going to play and we are just going to release him it is just unreasonable I agree with him. We played Kone after he was injured for so long? Shakes head.

 

[mkrudden]

Where did I say I want him to have a new contract? Fact is he is our best left sided midfielder and if he's fit why has he been overlooked so much? He is asking to go on loan. It's clear he is not going to play and we are just going to release him it is just unreasonable I agree with him. We played Kone after he was injured for so long? Shakes head.

I thought that's what you were intimating. My mistake.
I just think, unfortunately, he and Gibson offer nothing because of their poor injury records. I'm with @LinekersLegs in saying that if I've got Cleverley and Deulofeu who I can base a game plan around, I'm not going to shoe horn these two in just because they are finally fit. Plus there is every chance they will break down again.

Great servant, but time he left.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Fact is he is our best left sided midfielder and if he's fit why has he been overlooked so much? He is asking to go on loan. It's clear he is not going to play and we are just going to release him it is just unreasonable I agree with him. We played Kone after he was injured for so long? Shakes head.

But Kone had one specific injury that he was recovering from. In contrast Piennar is more like Gibson and his injuries are varied and extensive - he's had groin, thigh and knee problems in the last 18 months alone and he is almost two years older than Kone. Unfortunately the chance he'll be able to regularly play is therefore significantly reduced.

He certainly used to be our best left sided midfielder but even this time last year when he played well he didn't look robust enough to start in a tough match let alone two in a row. He's had another 6 months out with a different injury, imo it isn't that radical a suggestion that he might just not be making the team because he is no longer good enough, especially on the wing where you need to have quite a lot of energy.

 

[Bluechew]

Quite simply if Pienaar is fully fit he should play as it means we don't have to shoe horn another player into that position and watch them struggle. He links up play very well and will always buy us a free kick or two in the opposition half. We are completely unbalanced as a team with no left side to speak of and the one player who could help is frozen out and not even on the bench. Be straight with him, tell him no new contract due to age but still bloody use him while we are paying him. Then we could put Cleverley with Barry and drop the ginger coward.

 

[Woolly Blue]

Martinez has fallen out with/marginalised most of what I would call 'prime' squad players. I believe he has created a culture of dependency in the squad and that is reflected in the age make up. Most of the players in the squad are dependent upon Martinez's unique position and managerial viewpoint for their career and as such do not question his methods giving him in turn an easy ride.

Let's look through them:

Howard: knew he was past it, but had a manager unfailingly backing him when most would have dropped him ages ago, why rock the boat

Stones: knew other managers wouldn't indulge a 19 year old messing around with it at the back. As a kid why question the man giving you game time? Even he though has now started to once the novelty of first team football wore off.

Barry: no other prem manager would give a 35 year old guaranteed first team football, build the midfield around him and give him a fat contract. Wouldn't say a word against the giver of that sweet deal.

McCarthy: knows he's guaranteed starter even when unfit or out of firm. Knows there won't be a word said against his appalling goals and assist record or his terrible passing range. Knows he's lucky to be at this level and is shielded by Martinez

Barkley: Gets to play every week in his favourite position regardless of form without any questioning of his defensive work rate or marking. Why rock that boat?

Lukaku: Needed a manager who would play him every single week even though his touch initially was not good enough. Now that it is and he knows he can command better he's starting to question Martinez.

Del: needed game time and a manager not bothered by his lack of work rate, hello Roberto.

Martinez has systematically bought young players and older players as he knows they are both grateful to him for either starting or prolonging careers in the prem when maybe they're either not ready or past it.

Meanwhile, established premier league players who are in the age gap inverween? Mirallas - brilliant for us in 13/14 then unfairly marginalised after being made a scapegoat for penalty gate. Should have played a lot more. Naismith - key goals whenever he plays, yet marginalised out the squad and sold. Gibson - has injury issues yes but has been fit for a while now yet barely seen a minute. Oviedo - until only recently was even behind Galloway for the LB spot. Jelavic sold off for an ageing Kone. Pienaar and Osman - both got now, can barely get minutes. Even Lennon, saved Roberto's backside last season, gets rewarded by half a season on the bench, only got back in by indisputable good form.

The three exceptions to the rule are Jags Baines and Coleman probably because their exceptional quality makes them difficult to drop and also because Martinez knows he is an absolute fraud in this area. Even with that though there's been loads of rumours about Baines falling out with him but being such a key figure with the fans that he has remained in the team. All three are also extremely quiet so don't stir up much trouble.

In conclusion, any player who isn't reliant on Martinez for his prem career and has a bit of front to them has been marginalised or sold by the manager. This has come from the top, Bill has no standards so Martinez answers to no one, why have a squad where players hold him to account? Instead he's created one where the majority are so happy to be playing they'll swallow the tripe he feeds them and not ask questions.

Even with all the above though you sense it will all unravel soon.

The thread's about Pienaar, if it was for a general rant it's be titled something differently.
Stay on topic.

To those who responded to SD's essay, don't be dragged into something so obviously off-topic.

 

[AJC5]

Pienaar for me has been Everton's most important player for the past 10 years. He has dictated the way we play more than any other player with his ability to find space, receive the ball under pressure and play short one touch passes and one two's (particularly with Baines). He was the brains in our team and nearly all of our best performances in the last 10 years have revolved around him, particularly in RM's first season (think Arsenal away).

Looking back to RM's first season, a big difference has been the number of games Pienaar and Osman played. One or the other, sometimes both, played in virtually every game we won.

Osman is not as good as Pienaar but he also provide control and quality on the ball. We have not replaced either of these players. None of our current players have the same level of technical ability or know how, none of our players can play one or two touch passes.

We have been defensively very poor this season and part of the problem is our inability to control the play.

 

[MartSlinger]

A fully fit, in his prime Steven Pienaar would he amazing in this team with the likes of Lukaku, Barkley & Deulofeu around him. I miss the old Stevie P.