Ronald Koeman discussion

[Neiler]

He has to be able to adapt to pick u some points. What if he bought a striker and he wasn't very good in the prem, or got injured? Would he just carry on with games where there is only one shot in the first half against Brighton and Hove Albion? Even that is fine in isolation, but it's not.. That's how we set up.
Even without a strong centre forward presence, we should be able to set up to be dangerous from elsewhere.

I think if we had signed a striker and the results were the same then i think the criticism is valid. However he has shown at both Southampton and Everton with an established striker he can be competitive for the top spots in the league. Yes i agree i think we could have done with a couple of strikers.

Our tactics haven't changed hugely from last year, the team is set up for quick early ball in the first phase, and pressure and support in the second phase we play exactly how we did last season, only difference we are doing it without a top striker.

If we had Giroud now we would be in the top 4 or on the way. We are five points behind Arsenal and Liverpool.

 

[Lanolin]

As i have explanined i think we look a team that knows its not going to score, i think that has drained the confidence from the team as a result, we know what happens when a team lacks confidence.

I think its really simple, if we have a striker who can get 15 goals a season, i think you see a very different team and level of performance.

The club is at fault here not the manager, thats my opinion.

Of course things would be different with a top striker, that's hardly front page news. We'd have probably beaten Burnley and Limassol, and beaten Stoke 3-0 instead of 1-0. Great. Other than that though, would things really be so different? We had Lukaku last season and our tactically astute manager failed to win away for the last 5 months of the season, let's not pretend that a 15 goal a season striker (Deeney? King? Defoe?) would have suddenly transformed us.

The team lacks confidence, yes. It also lacks pace, balance, width, creativity, defensive solidity, and chemistry. Not many fans would have taken Troy Deeney or Chris Wood in the summer (nor, I suspect, would Koeman, as we could surely have got them in had we wanted to) and yet they're spearheading the attack of teams doing much better than us at the moment. The idea that the players have lost the ability to play football properly because they don't trust England's all time leading goalscorer to put the ball in the net when they lay it on a plate for him is laughable. If you've been watching this season you'll be aware that the performances have been awful from our very first competitive game, so the idea that we've simply lost confidence doesn't add up.

This team has many flaws at the moment, the lack of a top class striker is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Ihaters]

I think if we had signed a striker and the results were the same then i think the criticism is valid. However he has shown at both Southampton and Everton with an established striker he can be competitive for the top spots in the league. Yes i agree i think we could have done with a couple of strikers.

Our tactics haven't changed hugely from last year, the team is set up for quick early ball in the first phase, and pressure and support in the second phase we play exactly how we did last season, only difference we are doing it without a top striker.

If we had Giroud now we would be in the top 4 or on the way. We are five points behind Arsenal and Liverpool.

To be honest, I find that unlikely. Our best player has been our striker, he just happens to be a youngster. Giroud would not be more mobile than him and he would be our only source of movement for the halfarsed long ball outlet.
I'd be surprised if we had more than 3 or 4 more points tbh. We may of snuck a 2-1 yesterday, though we may also of lost tbf. We shall never know.
However what we do know, yet what Koeman apparently doesn't, is that there are other formations and tactics available when you don't have the personnel for the formations and tactics you are using and are losing points every game because of it.

 

[Kev50]

I was nodding agreement with you there, Kev.

Up until you mentioned fetching Moyes back

What is our no 1 priority now?
To stay in the league. Out of tHe pool of potential suitors s he's the most likely. He knows the players and he club he's available and he will keep us up.

 

[Neiler]

Of course things would be different with a top striker, that's hardly front page news. We'd have probably beaten Burnley and Limassol, and beaten Stoke 3-0 instead of 1-0. Great. Other than that though, would things really be so different? We had Lukaku last season and our tactically astute manager failed to win away for the last 5 months of the season, let's not pretend that a 15 goal a season striker (Deeney? King? Defoe?) would have suddenly transformed us.

The team lacks confidence, yes. It also lacks pace, balance, width, creativity, defensive solidity, and chemistry. Not many fans would have taken Troy Deeney or Chris Wood in the summer (nor, I suspect, would Koeman, as we could surely have got them in had we wanted to) and yet they're spearheading the attack of teams doing much better than us at the moment. The idea that the players have lost the ability to play football properly because they don't trust England's all time leading goalscorer to put the ball in the net when they lay it on a plate for him is laughable. If you've been watching this season you'll be aware that the performances have been awful from our very first competitive game, so the idea that we've simply lost confidence doesn't add up.

This team has many flaws at the moment, the lack of a top class striker is just the tip of the iceberg.

Yeah mate if you were fundamentally a critic last season i get that, personally i wasnt. I think the majority of the fan base weren't either. Ive no problem people criticising him with a full deck, i just dont think he was given it by the club.

 

[TheFinnFan]

Wrong.

We have some talented individual players, who can't play as a team together, due to having a clueless manager, who appears to have lost some of them.

A striker would make very little difference the way things are at the mo, as the ball hardly ever comes forward and when it does, it's a hoof.

Koemans calibre of a manager should be able to mould his tactics and inspire players eventhough he was let down in the window. No excuse.

 

[Neiler]

To be honest, I find that unlikely. Our best player has been our striker, he just happens to be a youngster. Giroud would not be more mobile than him and he would be our only source of movement for the halfarsed long ball outlet.
I'd be surprised if we had more than 3 or 4 more points tbh. We may of snuck a 2-1 yesterday, though we may also of lost tbf. We shall never know.
However what we do know, yet what Koeman apparently doesn't, is that there are other formations and tactics available when you don't have the personnel for the formations and tactics you are using and are losing points every game because of it.

Well with a center forward we know we are top six, we were screaming out for play makers to support Ross and Rom last season, we got that. To be honest, i think we would be challenging for the top four with proper center forward. But predicting hypothetical futures is futile. We can only go on the past and present.

 

[Ihaters]

Well with a center forward we know we are top six, we were screaming out for play makers to support Ross and Rom last season, we got that. To be honest, i think we would be challenging for the top four with proper center forward. But predicting hypothetical futures is futile. We can only go on the past and present.

True, can only compare the present to the past...
In the past, Moyes managed to get us keeping clean sheets and scoring goals with Fellaini up front having spent now't, and he was roundly slated on a weekly basis.

In the present, our very expensively assembled squad can do neither and look worse whilst failing to do it.

 

[Agent Blue]

The guy just doesn't get us at all.
The writing was on the wall from the beginning when he was conspicuous by his absence after signing a three year contract, it was around ten days later that he decided to show up for work. Alarm bells started ringing when after acquiring a rich owner we signed an ageing Williams and paid far too much money for a quick winger with not much else about him. Schneidrelen had an ok season.

We all know what a debacle this last transfer window was and this season is starting to look scarily like Martinez last one with us.......doing the same things over and over and expecting things to be different. The hardest thing to take for me, is the persistence with the two DM it just resembles Martinez with the Alcaraz and Howard fiasco.

Do we really trust him or the board for that matter to bring in the right players and then play them in the right way.
Not any more.

Taxi for Koeman!!!

 

[Lanolin]

I think if we had signed a striker and the results were the same then i think the criticism is valid. However he has shown at both Southampton and Everton with an established striker he can be competitive for the top spots in the league. Yes i agree i think we could have done with a couple of strikers.

Our tactics haven't changed hugely from last year, the team is set up for quick early ball in the first phase, and pressure and support in the second phase we play exactly how we did last season, only difference we are doing it without a top striker.

If we had Giroud now we would be in the top 4 or on the way. We are five points behind Arsenal and Liverpool.

And therein lies the problem which you are seemingly missing.

You can't say the manager is very good tactically on one hand, and then say we're playing the exact same way as we did when we had one of the best strikers in the world on the other. We won loads of games last year without playing well, because we had the firepower to blow teams away. We often just got the ball forward as quick as we could and hoped Lukaku would bag. He usually did at home, and that propelled us up the league.

This season we're carrying on with the same basic, directionless, football, only we don't have anyone to pull us out of the mire. It's appalling management.

 

[Kev50]

The guy just doesn't get us at all.
The writing was on the wall from the beginning when he was conspicuous by his absence after signing a three year contract, it was around ten days later that he decided to show up for work. Alarm bells started ringing when after acquiring a rich owner we signed an ageing Williams and paid far too much money for a quick winger with not much else about him. Schneidrelen had an ok season.

We all know what a debacle this last transfer window was and this season is starting to look scarily like Martinez last one with us.......doing the same things over and over and expecting things to be different. The hardest thing to take for me, is the persistence with the two DM it just resembles Martinez with the Alcaraz and Howard fiasco.

Do we really trust him or the board for that matter to bring in the right players and then play them in the right way.
Not any more.

Taxi for Koeman!!!

the other thing I can't forgive him for is the age range of the players he's brought in. 28-32. no sell on value. it's like hes thought, 'I'm not going to be here more than a couple of years, so to make me look the best possible I need players who hit the ground running, and will be good for a couple of years'. The bellend couldn't even get that right, mind

 

[Neiler]

True, can only compare the present to the past...
In the past, Moyes managed to get us keeping clean sheets and scoring goals with Fellaini up front having spent now't, and he was roundly slated on a weekly basis.

In the present, our very expensively assembled squad can do neither and look worse whilst failing to do it.

I think Mofro had the skill set and also STC is support, if he was here now id stick him up front. Moyes is also a very good manager.

My point is i think Koeman has had the rug pulled out from him, in the sense we invested a lot in players for a system that had to include a striker, we all know were the problem lies and the system doesnt work without it.

The question for me fundamentally lies who is the most responsible for this scenario as it undermines everything, my conclusion is the club.

 

[Harryflashman]

What is our no 1 priority now?
To stay in the league. Out of tHe pool of potential suitors s he's the most likely. He knows the players and he club he's available and he will keep us up.

How many of that squad are remaining from moyes’ Day ? The former manager knows far far less of them than he doesn’t know I can’t see that as a reason . I hope you’re not including Rooney who he sued or Barkley who I mostly remember getting bombed out for giving a penalty away at Blackburn in that list .

The idea of appointing a man whose failed at every job he’s taken after leaving us seems the very embodiment of madness to be honest . Fans at championship clubs don’t want him , Scotland fans prefer Alec Mcleish or Paul lambert .

I’m happy to forget the complete disrespect he treated us with when he left but from a poorly footballing point of view I think it’d be a horrific appointment.

To clarify this isn’t a defence of Koeman post by the way .

 

[Neiler]

And therein lies the problem which you are seemingly missing.

You can't say the manager is very good tactically on one hand, and then say we're playing the exact same way as we did when we had one of the best strikers in the world on the other. We won loads of games last year without playing well, because we had the firepower to blow teams away. We often just got the ball forward as quick as we could and hoped Lukaku would bag. He usually did at home, and that propelled us up the league.

This season we're carrying on with the same basic, directionless, football, only we don't have anyone to pull us out of the mire. It's appalling management.

Your agreeing with me mate, the tactics are spot on if we had a quality centre froward. That was obviously the plan, someone messed up somewhere. If you finish is European spots won year with a way of playing, then sell your best striker, you improve the quality of player in the squad but loose your striker - the problem is you lost you striker, not tactics but personnel and recuritment.

Ive already wirtten of the first half of the season, any points we get are bonus's if we have 20+ points before January and we can get a forward we will be doing well. The season is a right off and its the clubs fault.

 

[neil999]

I think Mofro had the skill set and also STC is support, if he was here now id stick him up front. Moyes is also a very good manager.

My point is i think Koeman has had the rug pulled out from him, in the sense we invested a lot in players for a system that had to include a striker, we all know were the problem lies and the system doesnt work without it.

The question for me fundamentally lies who is the most responsible for this scenario as it undermines everything, my conclusion is the club.

dont buy it, so one injury would wreck our season?