Rodwell

[kenada_blue]

Yet compare the results when Gibson and Rodwell are in the side...............

those games with Gibson, pienaar, Donovan, and jelavic...or those games with Rodwell, Cahill, saha and osman?

When we were poor, Rodwells stats are better than Gibson's when Gibson was playing in a better side...

 

[SgtPepper]

I'd like to see Rodwell next to Gibson in that holding role with Fellaini as an AM like he's been playing of late. Dont know if it would work but Gibson and Rodwell are both solid passers of the ball and Fellaini has been brilliant in that role. I imagine Rodwell will be better there than Neville.

 

[quasi modo]

Rodwell needs to get involved in games more for me, he has all the attributes to be a great player, but just seems to lack conviction in his play.

I think next season is going to be a big one for him to make it.

 

[paulbefc]

those games with Gibson, pienaar, Donovan, and jelavic...or those games with Rodwell, Cahill, saha and osman?

When we were poor, Rodwells stats are better than Gibson's when Gibson was playing in a better side...

He was looking decent until his injury. I'm not saying he's a bad player (he's defo not great though) or anything but the reason he is our most sell-able asset is that we don't need him in the set up we're employing. We have Felli and Gibson for the midfield now and they actually work well together. I have never thought that about Rodwell and Fellaini. Also, he'd fetch £7-8m so is more than useless sitting on the bench when we need new faces in different positions urgently.

He's never made a position his own, even for a short run of games out of the three central midfield berths we use and he has never even come close to bossing a game. Gibson has made the defensive midfield spot his own and has been excellent. So much more reliable than Rodwell, who is too soft for me. Gibson is in the Carsley mould (with some notable other superior traits such as positive passing and ace shooting) which gives Felli licence to do what he wants which has been crucial to our recent form. He's been a million miles from a passenger to our success this year so far. Rodwell is the definition of a passenger imo. Talented though, which is a shame.

 

[kenada_blue]

He was looking decent until his injury. I'm not saying he's a bad player (he's defo not great though) or anything but the reason he is our most sell-able asset is that we don't need him in the set up we're employing. We have Felli and Gibson for the midfield now and they actually work well together. I have never thought that about Rodwell and Fellaini. Also, he'd fetch £7-8m so is more than useless sitting on the bench when we need new faces in different positions urgently.

He's never made a position his own, even for a short run of games out of the three central midfield berths we use and he has never even come close to bossing a game. Gibson has made the defensive midfield spot his own and has been excellent. So much more reliable than Rodwell, who is too soft for me. Gibson is in the Carsley mould (with some notable other superior traits such as positive passing and ace shooting) which gives Felli licence to do what he wants which has been crucial to our recent form. He's been a million miles from a passenger to our success this year so far. Rodwell is the definition of a passenger imo. Talented though, which is a shame.

I agree about him being sellable but everyone in the team is up for sale.

I personally don't see that arguement that he's a passenger and Gibson isn't. All you hear is Gibson does things simple and isn't a stand out but let's others play...yet Rodwell does something similar and is called a passenger although his stats are better.

As mentioned plenty of times, pre and post January we were different teams. Personally, if the roles were reversed and Gibson played in the team pre January and Rodwell post...there would be a completely different view of both players.

And as for being too soft...he won more tackles than Gibson and put in more memorable defensive performances for me ...

I'm not having a go at Gibson but I don't buy this idea that because of him, Rodwell has to go when imo he'd improve our team no end. Especially when there's still a attacking midfield space Rodwell can play in...and can back up someone like Gibson so we don't have use Neville etc.

but if we have to sell him, that's the way it is. I just don't buy the agruements against him

 

[zed]

I agree about him being sellable but everyone in the team is up for sale.



but if we have to sell him, that's the way it is. I just don't buy the agruements against him

i see what you did there.

 

[paulbefc]

I agree about him being sellable but everyone in the team is up for sale.

I personally don't see that arguement that he's a passenger and Gibson isn't. All you hear is Gibson does things simple and isn't a stand out but let's others play...yet Rodwell does something similar and is called a passenger although his stats are better.

As mentioned plenty of times, pre and post January we were different teams. Personally, if the roles were reversed and Gibson played in the team pre January and Rodwell post...there would be a completely different view of both players.

And as for being too soft...he won more tackles than Gibson and put in more memorable defensive performances for me ...

I'm not having a go at Gibson but I don't buy this idea that because of him, Rodwell has to go when imo he'd improve our team no end. Especially when there's still a attacking midfield space Rodwell can play in...and can back up someone like Gibson so we don't have use Neville etc.

but if we have to sell him, that's the way it is. I just don't buy the agruements against him

He has always gone missing in games and really quite annoyingly in the past. The best reviews he's got that I can remember are when he was younger and everyone raved about how calm he was on the ball etc. That's fine for when you're coming through in your teens but he's been around for 5 years now.

He has never done, for example, what Gerrard did to get his success which was come out of his shell and boss games, despite everyone thinking he was a talented pansy at first. God knows he's had chance to do it. It'd be great to fit him in the side somewhere like, as you said, attacking mid, but he's never an attacking mid i.e. not creative and not a goalscorer and he's not the most effective defensive mid either imo i.e. he won't put himself about much more than Gibson there, won't protect the back line any better and won't score many more goals.

He's never done anything really special bar a couple of belters and that goal against United. It's been several years since the 30m links to United and he's still not done it. He's been unlucky with injuries but football is business these days.

 

[kenada_blue]

He has always gone missing in games and really quite annoyingly in the past. The best reviews he's got that I can remember are when he was younger and everyone raved about how calm he was on the ball etc. That's fine for when you're coming through in your teens but he's been around for 5 years now.

He has never done, for example, what Gerrard did to get his success which was come out of his shell and boss games, despite everyone thinking he was a talented pansy at first. God knows he's had chance to do it. It'd be great to fit him in the side somewhere like, as you said, attacking mid, but he's never an attacking mid i.e. not creative and not a goalscorer and he's not the most effective defensive mid either imo i.e. he won't put himself about much more than Gibson there, won't protect the back line any better and won't score many more goals.

He's never done anything really special bar a couple of belters and that goal against United. It's been several years since the 30m links to United and he's still not done it. He's been unlucky with injuries but football is business these days.

Yet...he's won more tackles and scored more this season?

You can say that he's gone into his shell... but on the other hand you can say that hes more disciplined.

Compare the England games he had to how he's told to play for us, and the two are completely different to a point that moyes openly said he doesn't know where his best position it.

And its impossible to judge him to say he doesn't impose a game when for all we know he's carrying out everything moyes tells him. You can easily compare what Rodwell does and what arteta did in his final year...get the ball and pass it to Baines.

Gibson never stamps his authority on games, and to say that he does must mean I've missed them this season. He just covers Fellaini well.

 

[paulbefc]

Yet...he's won more tackles and scored more this season?

You can say that he's gone into his shell... but on the other hand you can say that hes more disciplined.

Compare the England games he had to how he's told to play for us, and the two are completely different to a point that moyes openly said he doesn't know where his best position it.

And its impossible to judge him to say he doesn't impose a game when for all we know he's carrying out everything moyes tells him. You can easily compare what Rodwell does and what arteta did in his final year...get the ball and pass it to Baines.

Gibson never stamps his authority on games, and to say that he does must mean I've missed them this season. He just covers Fellaini well.

He never came out of his shell in the first place. He is/has been a timid player at vital times and it's cost us many a time as when Felli's been in that defensive midfield role, i.e. earlier in the season, Rodwell's had zero spark to create anything when he had the CM spot. The only time I've seen him get properly stuck in properly is the derby this year and when he lost it against city last year with Kompany. If there is one thing that tactics can't stop you doing in a game it's getting stuck in. It's central midfield ffs, you can't go missing the amount of times he does because of tactics and I can't remember another midfielder who was as passive as he has been at times, under Moyes.

Gibson's been much more pro-active and has never gone missing. He's tried positive play and shows himself for the ball more than Rodwell and has now started to show himself for shots more. He's just done the job better.

If there's one thing that's been a bit annoying on here, it's this idea that when a player has been sh*te/average/lazily/timid, it's because Moyes told them to be. Guess he forgot to tell that to Gibson then, Straq must have missed that day in training etc etc etc. FFS. If you're going to blame Moyes for Rodwell's performances you'll need some actual evidence.

 

[kenada_blue]

He never came out of his shell in the first place. He is/has been a timid player at vital times and it's cost us many a time as when Felli's been in that defensive midfield role, i.e. earlier in the season, Rodwell's had zero spark to create anything when he had the CM spot. The only time I've seen him get properly stuck in properly is the derby this year and when he lost it against city last year with Kompany. If there is one thing that tactics can't stop you doing in a game it's getting stuck in. It's central midfield ffs, you can't go missing the amount of times he does because of tactics and I can't remember another midfielder who was as passive as he has been at times, under Moyes.

Gibson's been much more pro-active and has never gone missing. He's tried positive play and shows himself for the ball more than Rodwell and has now started to show himself for shots more. He's just done the job better.

If there's one thing that's been a bit annoying on here, it's this idea that when a player has been sh*te/average/lazily/timid, it's because Moyes told them to be. Guess he forgot to tell that to Gibson then, Straq must have missed that day in training etc etc etc. FFS. If you're going to blame Moyes for Rodwell's performances you'll need some actual evidence.

I wrote a big reply until me phone blew up which has pissed me off.

Bottom line was there's plenty of evidence on moyes instructions on how rodwell plays. The contradiction in style of play in his England caps onpated to club. The similarity in how arteta played in his final year is seen in his play - deep, short, out wide to Baines as our attacks stemmed from him.

I also don't see how Gibson can be labelled a defensive shield when we were conceding the least amount of shots against us before he turned up. And Gibson Schweinsteiger goes missing for chunks of the game...its why he never made it at united. He had also mislaid plenty of passes in poor areas of the pitch or attempted Hollywood passes to no one.

I agree Rodwell doesn't attempt Hollywood balls, but I've always said he hardly gives possession away and isnt going to make a pass to no one.

As for his shooting...Rodwell made 25 attempts on goal compared to Gibson's 18.

fundementally it seems Gibson receives a lot of praise on the back of playing in an in form team. Even Neville looked good.

Rodwell seems to have been criticised this season due to the team not performing well, even when he was our better players.

I've said previously, we sell him, we sell him. I just don't see the point in selling a talented player to make quick change -9mill or so - when he's still young and talented enough to request double that if he plays more

 

[paulbefc]

I wrote a big reply until me phone blew up which has pissed me off.

Bottom line was there's plenty of evidence on moyes instructions on how rodwell plays. The contradiction in style of play in his England caps onpated to club. The similarity in how arteta played in his final year is seen in his play - deep, short, out wide to Baines as our attacks stemmed from him.

I also don't see how Gibson can be labelled a defensive shield when we were conceding the least amount of shots against us before he turned up. And Gibson Schweinsteiger goes missing for chunks of the game...its why he never made it at united. He had also mislaid plenty of passes in poor areas of the pitch or attempted Hollywood passes to no one.

I agree Rodwell doesn't attempt Hollywood balls, but I've always said he hardly gives possession away and isnt going to make a pass to no one.

As for his shooting...Rodwell made 25 attempts on goal compared to Gibson's 18.

fundementally it seems Gibson receives a lot of praise on the back of playing in an in form team. Even Neville looked good.

Rodwell seems to have been criticised this season due to the team not performing well, even when he was our better players.

I've said previously, we sell him, we sell him. I just don't see the point in selling a talented player to make quick change -9mill or so - when he's still young and talented enough to request double that if he plays more

You were arguing that Rodwell is superior to Gibson so the best way to compare them is when Rodwell plays the DM role. In this case, I'm pretty sure all Moyes will have wanted him to do is exactly what he told Gibson, Carsley, Fellaini etc to do. I don't reckon Gibson's gone missing while he's been here tbh. He has given possession away the odd time, yes, he's not perfect but he offers something besides sideways passes and zero creativity.

That's my frustration with Rodwell. He isn't that quick, tough or authoritative, he isn't very creative and he's not got a great goalscoring record like, for example, Cahill got by on. He isn't an attacking mid who will slip Jelavic in and join in with the tippy tappy stuff with Pienaar and Osman and score 10 a season. He's not an enforcer or creative player like Arteta for the middle and he's not going to offer much that Gibson doesn't at defensive midfield. I could be underestimating him badly here, but I can honestly say that in relation to the above criticisms, no event/game comes to mind that really convinces me any of them are wrong. And I am with Moyes on this: I have NO idea where he is best played because he doesn't look great or settled anywhere. £7-8m? In our state, we can't say no.

Probably sounds like I'm out to get him but I'm really not. He loves the club has said it himself, I really appreciate that but he doesn't appear to fit in our set up and we have pretty much every midfield position he could play in our team. And you can't say the way we've been playing is the wrong way to play because we've been scoring freely and playing some top quality stuff. I'd love him as a squad player, but I'd also like Clint Dempsey, Landon Donovan etc.

 

[babyhayley]

Rodwell needs to get involved in games more for me, he has all the attributes to be a great player, but just seems to lack conviction in his play.

I think next season is going to be a big one for him to make it.

co-sign!

 

[kenada_blue]

You were arguing that Rodwell is superior to Gibson so the best way to compare them is when Rodwell plays the DM role. In this case, I'm pretty sure all Moyes will have wanted him to do is exactly what he told Gibson, Carsley, Fellaini etc to do. I don't reckon Gibson's gone missing while he's been here tbh. He has given possession away the odd time, yes, he's not perfect but he offers something besides sideways passes and zero creativity.

But again, that's not entirely accurate as he's gonna be told to perform differently than Gibson, Fellaini etc due to the team set up.

Last season he played 4 different positions. This season he had a central midfield/defensive midfield role in a team devoid of any creativity and relied on baines and told to do what Arteta did in his last year - keep possession, tick over the mid, and pass outside (hence the crab nickname).

Gibson came in a DM/CM position in a team full of creativity on both wings and up front - options left right and centre.

And while its said he offers zero creativity and passes sideways, he still offered more goals, won more tackles, had more shots, kept more possession than Gibson.

That's my frustration with Rodwell. He isn't that quick, tough or authoritative, he isn't very creative and he's not got a great goalscoring record like, for example, Cahill got by on. He isn't an attacking mid who will slip Jelavic in and join in with the tippy tappy stuff with Pienaar and Osman and score 10 a season.

He's never played in a position to prove he could. apart from in his England caps where he could've bagged a hattrick and was a threat going forward.

He's not an enforcer or creative player like Arteta for the middle and he's not going to offer much that Gibson doesn't at defensive midfield. I could be underestimating him badly here, but I can honestly say that in relation to the above criticisms, no event/game comes to mind that really convinces me any of them are wrong. And I am with Moyes on this: I have NO idea where he is best played because he doesn't look great or settled anywhere. £7-8m? In our state, we can't say no.

Probably sounds like I'm out to get him but I'm really not. He loves the club has said it himself, I really appreciate that but he doesn't appear to fit in our set up and we have pretty much every midfield position he could play in our team. And you can't say the way we've been playing is the wrong way to play because we've been scoring freely and playing some top quality stuff. I'd love him as a squad player, but I'd also like Clint Dempsey, Landon Donovan etc.

I can't recall a game Gibson had where he's destroyed or bosses a midfield. He let's Fellaini do it and cleans up. Rodwell does actually put himself about, has shown his disciplined side, and had shown his attacking quality. In that case, for a lad that hasn't reached his peak he can offer more compared to Gibson who should be hitting his peak.

I'm not saying we've been playing the wrong way, I'm just putting up a defence as to why Rodwell isn't just an expendable player that we don't need. The only reason people give is that we have Gibson so we don't need him. But when you look into it, that opinion is built on a few falsities. We've seen Rodwell in a **** team so we judge. We haven't seen Gibson in that position.

And personally not too keen on getting rid of a young player who could be worth more than 9million in a year or two for a 29 year old with no resale value.

But were not in much of a position to do much about it.

 

[paulbefc]

But again, that's not entirely accurate as he's gonna be told to perform differently than Gibson, Fellaini etc due to the team set up.

Last season he played 4 different positions. This season he had a central midfield/defensive midfield role in a team devoid of any creativity and relied on baines and told to do what Arteta did in his last year - keep possession, tick over the mid, and pass outside (hence the crab nickname).

Gibson came in a DM/CM position in a team full of creativity on both wings and up front - options left right and centre.

And while its said he offers zero creativity and passes sideways, he still offered more goals, won more tackles, had more shots, kept more possession than Gibson.



He's never played in a position to prove he could. apart from in his England caps where he could've bagged a hattrick and was a threat going forward.



I can't recall a game Gibson had where he's destroyed or bosses a midfield. He let's Fellaini do it and cleans up. Rodwell does actually put himself about, has shown his disciplined side, and had shown his attacking quality. In that case, for a lad that hasn't reached his peak he can offer more compared to Gibson who should be hitting his peak.

I'm not saying we've been playing the wrong way, I'm just putting up a defence as to why Rodwell isn't just an expendable player that we don't need. The only reason people give is that we have Gibson so we don't need him. But when you look into it, that opinion is built on a few falsities. We've seen Rodwell in a **** team so we judge. We haven't seen Gibson in that position.

And personally not too keen on getting rid of a young player who could be worth more than 9million in a year or two for a 29 year old with no resale value.

But were not in much of a position to do much about it.

Not sure about the first bit. Surely when he plays DM, Moyes will tell him to do the role that has been the norm through Moyes' entire tenure?

As you've said he's played all over the midfield. He has had chance to be creative over the 4 years. He isn't that type of player though. At best he is a box to box midfielder, imo. A Gerrard (in his day) lite. Using his strength His performances would look better in a team like the one we've watched since jan but he's played in those teams before. Every year we turn it on and he's never put together a run that's made us think: we have to build around him in that position, like Felli has done. He's not that calibre of player.

On the subject of youth and resale value over older players in key positions, Dempsey and Donovan, although not long term buys, are actually needed now. We don't need another central midfielder now and keeping him would deny us any improvement in the squad. Forget an improved finish next year. we need someone to fill the Cahill position - Dempsey is ideal and twice the player Cahill ever was - massive improvement to the team for 3 years. Also, the right has been weak for God knows how long. We've never had balance, to have Donovan would mean balance, width and less reliance on the left for 3 years. January has proved how buying players in key areas brings returns to scale. More success on the pitch in the short-term = more money in the long term.

 

[Brennan]

Rodwell is a slightly above average player who would do better in a more attacking team but will probably end up playing for a bottom half of the table side in 5 years.