Roberto Martinez discussion

[Saint Domingo]

So my main point about you being early twenties is correct? I thought so.

Your viewpoints and the way you argue them across are a product of what you've been brought up with. Saturated football coverage, on the Xbox all the time. It's why you try to impress fellow footie fans by being ultra critique of your team and denying higher standards. It's also how you also imitate being a scout by offering up foreign players as an affordable solution to gaps in the team and tactics that you have personally identified.

There's many of you so don't take it personally but it shows a lack of experience and true perception.

There's also a coherent argument that some of the so called older guard who like to imagine they have seen everything in the modern game don't really understand modern football. This 'stay calm and let this team grow' show's an utter naivety with regard to the current premier league. This team will be gone in the blink of an eye. If it takes Martinez 5 years of faffing before he stumbles on success it's 2 years too many. This is not the 80s. I'd argue a lot of younger fans recognise this and want improvement. This tired old broken record of 'now now things will get better if we all stay calm' is a myth and frankly is not Everton. Everton used to be about success. In the 80s that was time and patience, that will not work now though. Everton like some of its fans need to get in the modern world if it wants to win anything again.

I don't own an X box and to my knowledge have not often suggested foreign signings to improve performance. On the contrary I believe the players are already here.

 

[Pacman]

The problem is the auld arses in the support who are just as bad as the fm youngsters (im somewhere in between both). They seen HK build a team up and think just because Martinez plays young lads that play boss attacking football every 1 in 3 games it means we're on the path to success. The one loophole in this is that HKs side had a solid no nonsense defence that certainly wouldn't have capituated in the manner we done yesterday.

Obviously their are extremes on both sides and I am neither for or against martinez as everton manager but my own opinion is that like moyes, he has a significant weakness in one area of the game that will most likely hamper us from ever achieving something of note. It took atleast 8 years for the myth of the "moyesiah" to be broken im expecting the same time frame will apply for those who herald martinez as a future Arsenal/Barca manager.

 

[chicoazul]

There's also a coherent argument that some of the so called older guard who like to imagine they have seen everything in the modern game don't really understand modern football. This 'stay calm and let this team grow' show's an utter naivety with regard to the current premier league. This team will be gone in the blink of an eye. If it takes Martinez 5 years of faffing before he stumbles on success it's 2 years too many. This is not the 80s. I'd argue a lot of younger fans recognise this and want improvement. This tired old broken record of 'now now things will get better if we all stay calm' is a myth and frankly is not Everton. Everton used to be about success. In the 80s that was time and patience, that will not work now though. Everton like some of its fans need to get in the modern world if it wants to win anything again.

I don't own an X box and to my knowledge have not often suggested foreign signings to improve performance. On the contrary I believe the players are already here.

Ok read that back and go and Wikipedia history of Newcastle 1995 to 2015 and see how that attitude done for them.

Your impatience and need to instant satisfaction again belies your naivety. It's because you were reared and brought up in a time of comfort. Santa wasn't bringing you second hand TVs that you'd dote over.

You're also well versed with social media and the feeling of self worth through opinion. Even when that opinion is wrong and you would benefit from listening a little more of those with experience.

Again it's not your fault but it shows. It's why pretty much everyone is disagreeing with you in here.

 

[Lowste]

Ancelotti is available. I'd also say Koeman is another manager who could do better with this squad.

You are joking with these two

 

[chicoazul]

The problem is the auld arses in the support who are just as bad as the fm youngsters (im somewhere in between both). They seen HK build a team up and think just because Martinez plays young lads that play boss attacking football every 1 in 3 games it means we're on the path to success. The one loophole in this is that HKs side had a solid no nonsense defence that certainly wouldn't have capituated in the manner we done yesterday.

Obviously their are extremes on both sides and I am neither for or against martinez as everton manager but my own opinion is that like moyes, he has a significant weakness in one area of the game that will most likely hamper us from ever achieving something of note. It took atleast 8 years for the myth of the "moyesiah" to be broken im expecting the same time frame will apply for those who herald martinez as a future Arsenal/Barca manager.

If you really knew your history you wouldn't be drawing parallels between Martinez's style of play, investment in youth and singing of youngsters with Kendall mate. That's far more Catterick, even if the personalities are completely opposite their approach to the game is very similar.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

@Saint Domingo whats your football philosophy?

 

[chicoazul]

@Saint Domingo whats your football philosophy?

That's a cruel way of pointing out kopiteism Doug you utter horror.

 

[neil999]

There's also a coherent argument that some of the so called older guard who like to imagine they have seen everything in the modern game don't really understand modern football. This 'stay calm and let this team grow' show's an utter naivety with regard to the current premier league. This team will be gone in the blink of an eye. If it takes Martinez 5 years of faffing before he stumbles on success it's 2 years too many. This is not the 80s. I'd argue a lot of younger fans recognise this and want improvement. This tired old broken record of 'now now things will get better if we all stay calm' is a myth and frankly is not Everton. Everton used to be about success. In the 80s that was time and patience, that will not work now though. Everton like some of its fans need to get in the modern world if it wants to win anything again.

I don't own an X box and to my knowledge have not often suggested foreign signings to improve performance. On the contrary I believe the players are already here.

we HAVE to be patient we can only win things through youth development and buying younger players, we don't have the money to do anything else

what do you suggest we change?

 

[Dithering Dougie]

That's a cruel way of pointing out kopiteism Doug you utter horror.

You know as well as I do he's got a favourite football formation, probably even got a 'plan B' as well.

 

[Groucho]

If you really knew your history you wouldn't be drawing parallels between Martinez's style of play, investment in youth and singing of youngsters with Kendall mate. That's far more Catterick, even if the personalities are completely opposite their approach to the game is very similar.

For me, what I find silly is the way some of the same fans that shout "Martinez is great" when we win, start shouting "Martinez out" after we don't win. That's just way too fickle for my liking.

And this "fraud" that they call him - I don't get that. Why "fraud"? Why not just 'poor manager' if they don't like him?

 

[Titus Bramble]

Another thing on Koeman, of his last 6 managerial jobs he has lasted only one season in 4 of them. Everton simply cannot afford to get rid of Martinez and his backroom staff, payoff Southampton for theirs and give him the money he'd want to start building his own team if he's only going to stick around for a season or 2.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

For me, what I find silly is the way some of the same fans that shout "Martinez is great" when we win, start shouting "Martinez out" after we don't win. That's just way too fickle for my liking.

And this "fraud" that they call him - I don't get that. Why "fraud"? Why not just 'poor manager' if they don't like him?

The modern phenomenon of managers "been found out" is a personal favourite of mine, second only to the "tactically naive" wailings of some.

 

[ijjysmith]

For me, what I find silly is the way some of the same fans that shout "Martinez is great" when we win, start shouting "Martinez out" after we don't win. That's just way too fickle for my liking.

And this "fraud" that they call him - I don't get that. Why "fraud"? Why not just 'poor manager' if they don't like him?

I reckon I'm somewhere in the middle of Great and Poor manager. Leaning into the great bit but not convincingly. He does some great stuff and I reckon I prefer Everton now than than under the perilous regime, but God he does stuff that drives me mad!

Still yet to see a viable alternative be mentioned.

 

[chicoazul]

For me, what I find silly is the way some of the same fans that shout "Martinez is great" when we win, start shouting "Martinez out" after we don't win. That's just way too fickle for my liking.

And this "fraud" that they call him - I don't get that. Why "fraud"? Why not just 'poor manager' if they don't like him?

Agreed. It's sad that many sound and reasonable posters swerve this thread and sometimes the forum as there's a few who argue like this but they're overwhelming.

It's perfectly fine to be either negative or positive about Martinez if you put your point over is a reasonable manner and argue reasonable points.

You only have to see how many pages generated in here after an adverse result and by the same names to see there's more than a few smited by an appointment they didn't want in the first place.

 

[chicoazul]

The modern phenomenon of managers "been found out" is a personal favourite of mine, second only to the "tactically naive" wailings of some.

Don't forget "he's lost the dressing room" which was rearing its head early months of this year.

That's some lost dressing room there.