Current Affairs Rail strikes

[roydo]

How do you negotiate when one side has said point blank “no” ?

Both sides have said "No". Thats the point. What is unclear, is what they have all said "No" to. I would love to know the deeper issues on, or off, the table.

 

[catcherintherye]

I think a decent start would be to know the precise details of the whole issue. From both sides. Who has offered what in return for whatever, that sort of thing. Its very rare that a pay dispute is as cut and dried as you seem to want an answer to.

Not taking sides, the rail strikes dont impact me in any way. The nurses/ambulance drivers? Different gravy imo.

I think both sides give that POV though mate. Or the union are. The government appear to me to be being evasive. Like saying we dont want to pay 17% but not saying what they would be willing to offer.

To me, it's one of those situations you stick people in a room, lock the door and say it's not opened until some agreement is reached. The government seem to want to prolong these strikes.

 

[catcherintherye]

You continue negotiating, like any other worker.

Ok. And industrial action is part of a negotiation tool legally available to employees isnt it?

The government have ignored them pre striking, for months, indeed years on end. Maybe after 12 years, they get the sense negotiating with not outcome is a bit of a waste of time? You know, when things like heating bills, rents, food costs need to be paid?

But do point to me the group of employees who have benefitted from negotiating but not striking over the last 12 years of this government.

I'm sure a PM who thinks homeless people work for Goldman Sachs is going to be really responsive to nurses asking nicely not to have their pay cut.

 

[roydo]

I think both sides give that POV though mate. Or the union are. The government appear to me to be being evasive. Like saying we dont want to pay 17% but not saying what they would be willing to offer.

To me, it's one of those situations you stick people in a room, lock the door and say it's not opened until some agreement is reached. The government seem to want to prolong these strikes.

Its "My dad is bigger than your dad" stuff really. But yeah, both sides, well all sides, (Govt, train co's and unions) will have a "Best Result". So a closed room, or ACAS, (is that still a thing?) will be the way its sorted.

 

[catcherintherye]

Its "My dad is bigger than your dad" stuff really. But yeah, both sides, well all sides, (Govt, train co's and unions) will have a "Best Result". So a closed room, or ACAS, (is that still a thing?) will be the way its sorted.

And without being party political, that seems to be Labours policy. Get everyone in a room, everyone compromises and you get a result.

This government seems to want to drag these strikes out, in my view to show how strong it is. My view has always been though, the best negotiator is not the fella who goes on about how wont shift position, but the one who chooses the deal.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

How do you negotiate when one side has said point blank “no” ?

And yet presumably the unions believe that the strikes will be persuasive or they wouldn't do them. I struggle to see how managers and employees can possibly work together after a strike. It's a complete rupture of the relationship.

 

[roydo]

And without being party political, that seems to be Labours policy. Get everyone in a room, everyone compromises and you get a result.

This government seems to want to drag these strikes out, in my view to show how strong it is. My view has always been though, the best negotiator is not the fella who goes on about how wont shift position, but the one who chooses the deal.

I agree. But we dont know what wont be compromised, from either side.

 

[PhilM]

But my gripe is about the fella on here, wanting gratitude for "covering" the work of nurses from them. Why on earth do they owe anyone gratitude? Particularly people who are making it harder for them to get a fair pay deal, or decent working conditions?

The government are letting these strikes go on, and attitudes like that expressed dont help that situation at all.

It's also worth saying, people can just say no. It's not appropriate and it's not safe.

Well nobody asked for anyone to "cover" (probably really badly) them.

They're asking for fair pay.

, and actually do essential work like keeping people alive.

This is one of the most bizarre things I've read on here, and that's saying something. The squaddies covering ultimately have no choice in the matter.

The decision to cover comes from the people at the top of the tree, and in government. If they were to say no, should they be docked privileges or fined?

Should they, in the worst case scenario, get sent to the glass house (Colchester) and get discharged? I understand the view that it's undermining the paramedics.

But it isn't the squaddies who are doing that, it's the government. The original point from the poster was that troopers are suffering from it too.

And privileges? Do you know how much a Pt. or a L/Cpl gets paid? The lads and girls covering are doing so because their C/O has told them to.

 

[catcherintherye]

This is one of the most bizarre things I've read on here, and that's saying something. The squaddies covering ultimately have no choice in the matter.

The decision to cover comes from the people at the top of the tree, and in government. If they were to say no, should they be docked privileges or fined?

Should they, in the worst case scenario, get sent to the glass house (Colchester) and get discharged? I understand the view that it's undermining the paramedics.

But it isn't the squaddies who are doing that, it's the government. The original point from the poster was that troopers are suffering from it too.

And privileges? Do you know how much a Pt. or a L/Cpl gets paid? The lads and girls covering are doing so because their C/O has told them to.

The point from the poster was that the Nurses/ambulances drivers should be grateful for squaddies "covering" them. They are not being covered.

Squaddies are not trained to do those jobs. They should state that.

And I think squaddies should be paid more, all members if society should be. Attacking nurses and NHS workers and making out they are trying to bunk off is absolutely ludicrous and insulting though, and wont help anyone. Nurses are using foodbanks ffs, so they're obviously not living the high life.

 

[PhilM]

The point from the poster was that the Nurses/ambulances drivers should be grateful for squaddies "covering" them. They are not being covered.

Squaddies are not trained to do those jobs. They should state that.

And I think squaddies should be paid more, all members if society should be. Attacking nurses and NHS workers and making out they are trying to bunk off is absolutely ludicrous and insulting though, and wont help anyone. Nurses are using foodbanks ffs, so they're obviously not living the high life.

But who’s saying that? Who is doing that apart from the government and their cronies?

I’m totally for improved wages and condition for NHS staff, and I’m in favour of the strike. Yet, your tone appeared to blame the army and mentioned their perks.

People can be sympathetic for the causes of the nurses and appreciate that another group, who are often paid less, are having to cover but can't strike.

It doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

[slipstream86]

Well nobody asked for anyone to "cover" (probably really badly) them.

They're asking for fair pay. They dont get all the perks that squaddies get, and actually do essential work like keeping people alive.

Your attitude is disgusting really. What on earth have you done that's comparable to what our blessed nurses have done? Dont ever try and make a comparison to them.

You’ve already embarrassed yourself with some truly dumbfounded ideas somehow painting service personnel who are acting under orders as filthy scabs who are breaking a picket line….Echoes of the Bolshevik revolution inspired mutiny 1917.

Step back from the brink mate. You’re giving the sane side of a worthy argument a bad rep on here.

 

[catcherintherye]

But who’s saying that? Who is doing that apart from the government and their cronies?

I’m totally for improved wages and condition for NHS staff, and I’m in favour of the strike. Yet, your tone appeared to blame the army and mentioned their perks.

People can be sympathetic for the causes of the nurses and appreciate that another group, who are often paid less, are having to cover but can't strike.

It doesn't have to be one or the other.

But the post in question was doing that. It was having a pop at nurses. They are allowed to go on strike.

And look, I dont know the ins and outs of squaddie pay, but it's my understanding they dont pay rent. I doubt many nurses take home 18k+p/a after rent is paid.

Those "covering" them are making it harder for nurses to get a fair deal. That's the reality of it. I'm not sure why nurses or other people have to have sympathy for them. If they find it hard to cover for a few days, tey doing it full time for a lot less money (after rent).

 

[catcherintherye]

You’ve already embarrassed yourself with some truly dumbfounded ideas somehow painting service personnel who are acting under orders as filthy scabs who are breaking a picket line….Echoes of the Bolshevik revolution inspired mutiny 1917.

Step back from the brink mate. You’re giving the sane side of a worthy argument a bad rep on here.

Hey what? What has any of those got to do with the Bolshevik revolution?

The people doing the work denoted to be done by professionals are breaking picket lines. And are undermining the ability of nurses, many who cant afford to heat their homes, or feed their families to avoid having a pay cut. I'm not going to go into the language you have used above, and there is mitigation, but however uncomfortable, they are the facts.

You chose to come on here, and target those people. You should have a look at your argument, and consider whether you are happy having a pop at the very people who have held this country together over recent years. Consider that, before you start throwing out notions of "dumbfounded ideas" or whatever else.

And for what it's worth, I'm supportive of soldiers, and nurses getting paid more fairly. We wont get that when one group of people has a pop at another gor trying to defend their terms, conditions and pay.

 

[catcherintherye]

I agree. But we dont know what wont be compromised, from either side.

And in fairness, I dont expect either side to weaken their hand by putting that out publicly.

But what does seem reasonable, is for both sides to meet to try and resolve it. I dont know why the government is refusing to do this. It feels like point scoring to me.

Ans in fairness, I'd say exactly the same if the union refused to meet the government. It would be equally as pig headed.

 

[PhilM]

But the post in question was doing that. It was having a pop at nurses. They are allowed to go on strike.

And look, I dont know the ins and outs of squaddie pay, but it's my understanding they dont pay rent. I doubt many nurses take home 18k+p/a after rent is paid.

Those "covering" them are making it harder for nurses to get a fair deal. That's the reality of it. I'm not sure why nurses or other people have to have sympathy for them. If they find it hard to cover for a few days, tey doing it full time for a lot less money (after rent).

You do pay rent if you live on base: it’s deducted from your pay. Likewise with food, you either pay in the mess or it’s deducted from your pay.