Current Affairs Race wars, neo-nazis and other unpleasantness

[neil999]

You're quick to dismiss people who have concern over uncontrolled migration as just being naive fools who are blagged by the media.

Perhaps some are, but;

'The latest official estimates from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) indicate that net migration in the year ending December 2023 stood at 685,000, compared with an updated estimate of 764,000 for the year ending December 2022'

What's the population of Liverpool?

Is it sustainable to add another city the size of Liverpool every year?

See, I have concerns about that. Migration is essential - but it has to be managed IMO and I feel it's too high. But expressing it is a waste of time because you're either a loon, an idiot or a racist. Or all three.

You'll have a situation where people feel they don't have a voice - and people like Trump/Farage exploit it.

Why do you keep calling it uncontrolled immigration, ?when it is being controlled...you may not agree with the numbers but there are rules in place

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Why do you keep calling it uncontrolled immigration, ?when it is being controlled...you may not agree with the numbers but there are rules in place

Do you think that's sustainable?

Can I go and live in America permanently if I wanted? Or Canada? I don't think so...

 

[jackyboy]

Hopefully the exceptionalism can be knocked on the head now. We're just as bad as anywhere else in the UK. Need to own it.

 

[Kurt.]

These Knobheads rioting now will happily go to a Turkish barber or a kebab shop every week and won’t think twice of jumping on a plane to Turkey for their holidays either …. But detest Muslims in the uk absolute mouth breathers

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Hopefully the exceptionalism can be knocked on the head now. We're just as bad as anywhere else in the UK. Need to own it.

When America sneezes, we catch a cold.

We're just a few years behind. As an example - the level of debate around trans - and identity politics.

It's no good

Trump type will end up here.

 

[neil999]

Do you think that's sustainable?

Can I go and live in America permanently if I wanted? Or Canada? I don't think so...

???? You cant just come to the UK permanently if you fancy it! What do you mean?!

 

[tsubaki]

You're quick to dismiss people who have concern over uncontrolled migration as just being naive fools who are blagged by the media.

Perhaps some are, but;

'The latest official estimates from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) indicate that net migration in the year ending December 2023 stood at 685,000, compared with an updated estimate of 764,000 for the year ending December 2022'

What's the population of Liverpool?

Is it sustainable to add another city the size of Liverpool every year?

See, I have concerns about that. Migration is essential - but it has to be managed IMO and I feel it's too high. But expressing it is a waste of time because you're either a loon, an idiot or a racist. Or all three.

You'll have a situation where people feel they don't have a voice - and people like Trump/Farage exploit it.

I'd say the vast majority of them are naive fools who have been blagged, though.

There are loads of reasons why people might want a change in migration policy, many of them entirely sensible and which would result in lower migration and certainly lower illegal migration. The problem is that the vast majority of people do not cite those reasons, and instead just repeat what they've been told instead.

You can easily see this when you talk to someone who holds these views; get to the point where they repeat the slogan and then ask them a question about it - you'll see the delay as they have to think why they have said what they've just said.

 

[jackyboy]

Absolutely mind-blowing when you consider the demographics of Liverpool and Merseyside that people think Muslims are the probably. As an area we must have one of the lowest Muslim populations compared to other Major Cities. Would be interesting to know how many of these morons have ever actually interacted with a Muslim person.

 

[neil999]

I think one of the issues is it is difficult to quantify cost, immigration that brings in taxes and money spent vs infrastructure cost

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I wonder if it's in part because it become too easy to call people right wing/racist nowadays.

Things like vote Brexit = racist gammon.

Express concern over uncontrolled immigration = racist.

People lash out if they don't feel listened to don't they?

And agitators will exploit that. And scum/opportunist arseholes will jump on.

The thing is Dan, we're in a position whereby you can't actually use evidence on these matters because we've been told that we don't need experts any more (when it suits an argument). You come from a criminology background, so you know that people generally assume crime to be much higher than it actually is. I'm sure no one would advocate crafting policy based on what people think the reality is versus what it actually is, yet that's precisely what we're doing with immigration if we listen to the fears that are constantly peddled, as not only do people believe there are far more migrants than there actually are, but they also believe them to be harmful to their job prospects and culture, none of which is true.

 

[Leylo]

These Knobheads rioting now will happily go to a Turkish barber or a kebab shop every week and won’t think twice of jumping on a plane to Turkey for their holidays either …. But detest Muslims in the uk absolute mouth breathers

Have to check the news again see if the rioters have mullets

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I'd say the vast majority of them are naive fools who have been blagged, though.

There are loads of reasons why people might want a change in migration policy, many of them entirely sensible and which would result in lower migration and certainly lower illegal migration. The problem is that the vast majority of people do not cite those reasons, and instead just repeat what they've been told instead.

You can easily see this when you talk to someone who holds these views; get to the point where they repeat the slogan and then ask them a question about it - you'll see the delay as they have to think why they have said what they've just said.

Aye mate and they're routinely bracketed which goes to my initial point in response to this;

Trouble is I'm seeing more and more people agreeing with the sentiment who would never see themselves partake in such damaging activities. At some point Government whatever whoever that is, really going to have to reach out to this demographic.

I wonder if it's in part because it become too easy to call people right wing/racist nowadays.

Things like vote Brexit = racist gammon.

Express concern over uncontrolled immigration = racist.

People lash out if they don't feel listened to don't they?

And agitators will exploit that. And scum/opportunist arseholes will jump on.

There's no room for debate - it's become very partisan.

 

[The T-Dex]

Absolutely mind-blowing when you consider the demographics of Liverpool and Merseyside that people think Muslims are the probably. As an area we must have one of the lowest Muslim populations compared to other Major Cities. Would be interesting to know how many of these morons have ever actually interacted with a Muslim person.

It's around 5% I think.

 

[PSB1]

The thing is Dan, we're in a position whereby you can't actually use evidence on these matters because we've been told that we don't need experts any more (when it suits an argument). You come from a criminology background, so you know that people generally assume crime to be much higher than it actually is. I'm sure no one would advocate crafting policy based on what people think the reality is versus what it actually is, yet that's precisely what we're doing with immigration if we listen to the fears that are constantly peddled, as not only do people believe there are far more migrants than there actually are, but they also believe them to be harmful to their job prospects and culture, none of which is true.

Genuine question: are Dan's figures accurate or not?

 

[BullensRoad]

You're quick to dismiss people who have concern over uncontrolled migration as just being naive fools who are blagged by the media.

Perhaps some are, but;

'The latest official estimates from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) indicate that net migration in the year ending December 2023 stood at 685,000, compared with an updated estimate of 764,000 for the year ending December 2022'

What's the population of Liverpool?

Is it sustainable to add another city the size of Liverpool every year?

See, I have concerns about that. Migration is essential - but it has to be managed IMO and I feel it's too high. But expressing it is a waste of time because you're either a loon, an idiot or a racist. Or all three.

You'll have a situation where people feel they don't have a voice - and people like Trump/Farage exploit it.

Very sensible post.