Potential new Formation and Teams

[bainesontoast]

So I see a lot of 3-4-3 based on what Martinez has done at Wigan, does anyone truly believe that is a good formation for our current personnel? And why?

I can certainly see us go to it at some point, I just think it's not a good fit.

I think we have the players to pull it off without a doubt. In Baines and Coleman we have two "wing back" types, one of which (Baines) is the best in the league at what he does and the other (Coleman) has shown great promise emulating similar duties on the other flank. Coleman obviously isn't the finished article just yet but he was fantastic towards the back end of last season with his defensive and supporting the attack contributions. Just watch Arsenal away again and marvel at him. 3-4-3 formation could seriously be the making of him.

With a trio of Mirallas-Deuloufou-Kone in attack, we'd have directness, mobility and interchangeability in abundance which is also key to getting 3-4-3 to work properly as it's an attacking formation to say the least. The fact those three can operate in different positions in the final third is a huge benefit and would make us hard to predict.

Distin has experience at left back and Jagielka has experience at right back meaning both can cover wide defensive areas from central positions if required. The trick is playing the centre back who's most comfortable on the ball central of the three and apparently Alcaraz is quite good on the ball.

Then there's central midfield. In Fellaini we have our ball winner, in Gibson we have our metronome who can spray the ball around.

Our squad ticks all the boxes for it to work successfully.

 

[james2805]

It would be a 5-4-1 when off the ball and defending. And a 3-4-3 when in control and dominating.

Im guessing something like that if the system is used anyway.

 

[Furey1878]

 

[pfim]

I guess I just don't get it. If you have Coleman and Baines as the two wingbacks, then all you're really doing is swapping an attacker for a centerback-type in that scenario. We have no trouble defending when Baines and Coleman go forward, so I guess I don't see the need for 3 at the back.

 

[pablo_p]

I think Jagielka's comments yesterday almost confirm it's three at the back. I love the idea of playing this 3-2-2-3 system but only if we can keep Baines and Fellaini.

What did he say, mate?

So I see a lot of 3-4-3 based on what Martinez has done at Wigan, does anyone truly believe that is a good formation for our current personnel? And why?

I can certainly see us go to it at some point, I just think it's not a good fit.

I don't like the idea of it, myself personally. I can see why 3 at the back is enticing for a manager in the modern game. But, as proved against Stoke, our fullbacks were somewhat nullified when we adopted it. Baines and Coleman, arguably our most attacking outlets, had no protection from Mirallas and Pienaar as they were occupying different spaces.

Teams these days are padding their midfields out with men, so to have 3 at the back would essentially allow us more bodies than the opposition. Great in theory, but if you're playing against a pacy team and you're caught out on the counter, you're ****ed.

Were we to play the 3-4-3, we'd essentially wind up with 6 midfielders, with the Centre-Forward in our attacking line remaining further up and the wingers dropping back slightly to help the midfield out.

It all sounds good in theory, but we need to address the fact that we have Jagielka, Distin, Alcaraz, Heiting and Duffy. Heitinga wants out, which would leave 3 CB's with one young man in Duffy with little PL experience as cover. That is, if Heitinga does go. Not a good situation to be in, if one of the back 3 were to get injured.

Also, you have to look at the fact that we've a lot of new faces in ATM. Granted, they've been brought in early so they have a chance to bed in, but to ask them to get up to date in a new formation in a short space of time is too much, IMO.

Last year, we were good value. We needed a bit more depth out wide, and were guilty of hoofing it too much. Bringing in Deulofeu could well address the depth issue. Given that he's away from the back 4, it's not as much of an issue if he were to lose the ball etc, as it would be if the defence were out of sorts.

Personally, I'm happy with who we've brought in so far as cover. If we were to go 3 at the back, it could well back-fire. That being said, I could well be wrong and it could push us on.

 

[Whitty]

3 at the back would be a mistake imo. We all like to think about Baines and Coleman both bombing on all game but what happens when teams are double teaming them or counter attack quickly. We're more than capable of being sound defensively with 4 - why risk giving teams a potential advantage against us by changing formation from one our defenders are succesful at using?

If its not broke.....

Martinez needs to get us playing more fluidly in attack. To do that he doesn't need to change everything though

 

[LTblue]

I see the main XI being played like this.

Howard

Baines Jagielka Alcaraz Coleman

Pienaar Fellaini Gibson

Kone/Deulofeu Mirallas
Jelavic/Kone

I think Distin is a fantastic centre-back but I feel Martinez will prefer his ex Wigan captain who has more ball playing ability. I'm sticking with Howard in goal but I feel Robles could replace him as he's also a very good keeper who again has ball playing capabilities. Pienaar will be shifted inside where he also performs very well to improve our vision centrally and make room for wide forwards that Martinez uses. I feel Pienaar will be given the free role Maloney was given at Wigan albeit Pienaar is a superior player. Depending on how pre-season goes there is a grey area around Kone will start as the central striker and Deulofeu will play left forward or Kone will fill that slot and Jelavic will errm slot. Interesting times ahead.

 

[Philw]

Swap Felli and Gibbo around and I think you've just named our starting lineup against Norwich.

Yeah, a lot of people dropping Jelavic and Pienaar completely for Kone/De La Fou (Its just me myself and I)/Barkley. I really don't see this happening to start the season. Ross and Gerard I think will get opportunities i'm sure, but it will be from the bench to start, and Leon may still get in before them at first.

Here man: http://lineupbuilder.com/

Think this one is better - Football Formations - footballuser.com

I see the main XI being played like this.

Howard

Baines Jagielka Alcaraz Coleman

Pienaar Fellaini Gibson

Kone/Deulofeu Mirallas
Jelavic/Kone

I think Distin is a fantastic centre-back but I feel Martinez will prefer his ex Wigan captain who has more ball playing ability. I'm sticking with Howard in goal but I feel Robles could replace him as he's also a very good keeper who again has ball playing capabilities. Pienaar will be shifted inside where he also performs very well to improve our vision centrally and make room for wide forwards that Martinez uses. I feel Pienaar will be given the free role Maloney was given at Wigan albeit Pienaar is a superior player. Depending on how pre-season goes there is a grey area around Kone will start as the central striker and Deulofeu will play left forward or Kone will fill that slot and Jelavic will errm slot. Interesting times ahead.

Think we should prob keep Baines and Coleman the other way around tbf! If Martinez where to bring Alcarez in I think it would be for Jags, Distin's too beastly and keeps the left footed balance. Jag's club captain, so I doubt it myself.

 

[Jozzy]

This would be my starting line up, permitting everyone is fit and available with our current squad.

Tim Howard
Seamus Coleman - Phill Jagielka - Sylvain Distin - Leighton Baines
Darron Gibson - Marouane Fellaini
Gerard Deulofeu - Ross Barkley - Kevin Mirallas
Kone

Subs: Joel Robles - Tony Hibbert - Antolin Alcaraz - Leon Osman - Nikica Jelavic - Victor Anichebe - Steven Pienaar​

Although if i was picking my team for the first game of the season I would have Mirallas on the right wing, bring Pienaar on for Deulofeu and put Pienaar on the left wing. I wouldn't throw Deulofeu straight into the starting XI i feel he should be slowly introduced into the first team.

 

[tsdoddy]

Swap Felli with Barkley, then it's sound.

OVIEDO???? seriously?

 

[Furey1878]

OVIEDO???? seriously?

Easily swapped with Pienaar or Deufoleu. My concern was playing Felli as a CAM and Barkley as a CM. Other way round methinks.

 

[tsdoddy]

Easily swapped with Pienaar or Deufoleu. My concern was playing Felli as a CAM and Barkley as a CM. Other way round methinks.

That Oviedo does not belong in the midfield he's a left back pacey, but his technique is nowhere near our Baines

 

[Michael Tsui]

I see this.
http://lineupbuilder.com/?sk=r0h

This follows Martinez's preferred front formation: one central target, one wide man who is tasked with making runs and direct plays, and one off centre but almost a band back. You might notice I pull kone back but I see Martinez is someone who embraces defending from the front. I use Pienaar on the left, mainly for not breaking up the combination, buy anyone who tends to play centrally and can kick a ball would do a decent job there.

In the midfield I opt for a double pivot system, with Gibson staying compact in front of the defenders, Fellaini running, and Osman linking up with the three in front of him. This is a Passer-Runner-Creator system, which is far from ideal, but as we will probably press from up top, so we can take a slight risk here.

At the back the usual back 4. No surprises here.

Some points to note:

No Jelavic. I just don't rate him, simply because even if he is not good, at least he should try to occupy a defender. If defenders ignore him that's really troublesome. Anichebe is much better in this regard.
Deulofeu is no starter. No offense but this deal may or may not turn out good. Alternative if he is that good, we can start with him and Mirallas. Since both players are better on their right than their left, they could interchange positions and confuse opponents without dragging ourselves out of shape. He could also play as a false 10 but this will depend on whether Moses comes as we don't have enough wide men to support this formation.
Nor Barkley, though I can see him starting more games than last season, but he was really no more than a passenger to me and could quickly run out of ideas if things go against him.
Naismith can still play a role, especially if the opposition has their main passer at the back. He is useful with his work rate and defensive positioning.

(p.s. Admittedly it is partly modeled upon this, but the main point is the same: fluid transition between different formations while being very confusing for defenders to analyze and organize themselves.

 

[tsdoddy]

U

I see this.

This follows Martinez's preferred front formation: one central target, one wide man who is tasked with making runs and direct plays, and one off centre but almost a band back. You might notice I pull kone back but I see Martinez is someone who embraces defending from the front. I use Pienaar on the left, mainly for not breaking up the combination, buy anyone who tends to play centrally and can kick a ball would do a decent job there.

In the midfield I opt for a double pivot system, with Gibson staying compact in front of the defenders, Fellaini running, and Osman linking up with the three in front of him. This is a Passer-Runner-Creator system, which is far from ideal, but as we will probably press from up top, so we can take a slight risk here.

At the back the usual back 4. No surprises here.

Some points to note:

No Jelavic. I just don't rate him, simply because even if he is not good, at least he should try to occupy a defender. If defenders ignore him that's really troublesome. Anichebe is much better in this regard.
Deulofeu is no starter. No offense but this deal may or may not turn out good. Alternative if he is that good, we can start with him and Mirallas. Since both players are better on their right than their left, they could interchange positions and confuse opponents without dragging ourselves out of shape. He could also play as a false 10 but this will depend on whether Moses comes as we don't have enough wide men to support this formation.
Nor Barkley, though I can see him starting more games than last season, but he was really no more than a passenger to me and could quickly run out of ideas if things go against him.
Naismith can still play a role, especially if the opposition has their main passer at the back. He is useful with his work rate and defensive positioning.

(p.s. Admittedly it is partly modeled upon this, but the main point is the same: fluid transition between different formations while being very confusing for defenders to analyze and organize themselves.

Pretty much agree with that and tactics bar the Naismith LM/LW shout instead of pienaar, no I don't wanna see that EVER

 

[Whitty]

Distin has made comments now saying he's happy to adapt to 3 at the back. Not looking good for my hopes of sticking with 4 at the back but will trust Martinez to make it work