On football and identity: what does it mean to be a female Muslim football fan?

[dholliday]

stats are all about how you present them...

 

[janaaa]

Well the counter argument is that feminism is simply the rationale that both sexes have equal rights - no one can argue against that surely? And the annoying thing about your position is that you're suggesting that millions of women have a weird anti male agenda when in reality you're talking about more than half the world, a massive body of people with diverse views and opinions.

 

[The-Golden-Vision]

Rape happens to 1 in every 5 women: Source: http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/Statistics2.php.

1 in 4 women are abused by their partner: Source: http://www.eurowrc.org/02.faq/faq_en_canada/03.faq_en_canada.htm.

Every single society in over 10,000 years of human civilization whether past or present has treat women worse than men. Source: a basic knowledge of history.

Wrong. Read the rape crisis link again mate.

 

[Allezfan]

But another way:

20% of all women will experience physical abuse in their lifetime.
A woman will know about 20 men of note in her lifetime (conservative estimate).

Thus...1% of all men abuse women. Leaving 99% as the good eggs. Meaning modern feminism's distrust of all (or most) men may not be that justified.

The problem is you can't tell the good ones from the criminals by looking.

We encourage distrust of men in women because we tell them they're asking for it when they trust men and willingly spend time alone with them and then get raped (and I have set in a court case where someone I loved was told just that by a lawyer. That her lack of distrust meant she wasn't a real victim.)

And then having told women to not go out in the dark alone, to not get drunk alone, to not wear revealing clothes because if they do it's their fault if something happens to them, because men can't help themselves when provided with temptation, we get upset when women act as if all men are dis trustworthy and they need to be on their guard all the time.

 

[Groucho]

Football in general has come a long way since the days of throwing bananas on the pitch, and thank God it has.

If such an incident occurred today, rather than turn a blind eye, I'm sure people would report this. The vast, vast majority of match goers and indeed football fans in general are decent people. Sure, in a crowd of 40,000, you're gonna get a few bad eggs but by far and away the crowd, on the whole, must be good eggs.

I started going to the match, well, a while ago. It was pre-Hillsborough, and Everton were title holders. I love Everton - I also happen to hate racism (and homophobia and prejudice in general). I'm not sure the "Kick It Out" campaign goes far enough.

We must ensure we continue to work towards football being an inclusive sport, and we should all strive to make Everton the most inclusive club.

As for being female, my wife has been coming with me to the match for years now and we've never had a problem, however she is not Muslim so can't really comment on that part.

 

[Groucho]

Football in general has come a long way since the days of throwing bananas on the pitch, and thank God it has.

If such an incident occurred today, rather than turn a blind eye, I'm sure people would report this. The vast, vast majority of match goers and indeed football fans in general are decent people. Sure, in a crowd of 40,000, you're gonna get a few bad eggs but by far and away the crowd, on the whole, must be good eggs.

I started going to the match, well, a while ago. It was pre-Hillsborough, and Everton were title holders. I love Everton - I also happen to hate racism (and homophobia and prejudice in general). I'm not sure the "Kick It Out" campaign goes far enough.

We must ensure we continue to work towards football being an inclusive sport, and we should all strive to make Everton the most inclusive club.

As for being female, my wife has been coming with me to the match for years now and we've never had a problem, however she is not Muslim so can't really comment on that part.

 

[SpeedEFC]

To be honest though she has got a point with the whole whiteness thing, I wouldn't call it white supremacy or racism but I reckon most Evertonians are predominantly working class white males who aren't exactly the most clued up about race or gender issues. To someone like her it must be disconcerting seeing what the average Evertonian is like because I'd say the average Evetonian is fairly insulated from the problems she must face on a daily basis so they'd have no reason to really look into that kind of thing. This is mostly because the average Evertonian grew up in Liverpool which is a very un-mixed city compared to Birmingham so it's not surprising if she feels the way she does, especially if she looks hard enough for it because at the end of the day in a crowd of 40,000 people you will find the odd racist and BNP supporter plus I don't think many people in the crowd would have a high opinion of Muslims when the news is always running anti-Muslim stories and giving nutjobs like Anjem Choudary airtime.

Still, I'm glad she's an Evertonian and can see that Everton isn't a racist or sexist club, it's great to hear that Everton has reach beyond just Liverpool and the immediate area. One thing I'd like to know though is why she's an Everton supporter, I'd like to hear how someone from Birmingham with no ties to Liverpool is an Everton supporter, especially a female Muslim from Birmingham. It would be interesting to hear how she became an Evertonian especially when we were dire in the 90s and she had the choice of the RS and Man Utd when it sounds like she was really starting to take an interest in football. It must have been hard for her to grow up an Evertonian with most of her friends were supporting them or someone like Villa.

 

[dholliday]

Well the counter argument is that feminism is simply the rationale that both sexes have equal rights - no one can argue against that surely? And the annoying thing about your position is that you're suggesting that millions of women have a weird anti male agenda when in reality you're talking about more than half the world, a massive body of people with diverse views and opinions.

I fully support equal rights for all, and fully support traditional feminism (which is about equal rights).

I don't support guff like this, tho':

Why are my feminist friends still taking their husbands' surnames?

With pearls of wisdom like:

I find myself standing in the back pews of church watching a dear female friend led down the aisle on her father’s arm, blubbering uncontrollably through my MaxFactor. But these are not tears of joy, of nostalgia, or even envy. These are tears of despair. Of confusion.

Another comrade has fallen. Another secular, strong-minded, sexually-liberated, independent Gen-Xer is giving up her name to a man before God in an alabaster scene straight out of Bride to Be magazine and all I can think is, “all John Howard’s dreams have come true”. And why? Oh, because he wanted me to.

It's looking for a problem that's not there.

A woman can take the man's name, or she can take it and double-barrell it with hers. Or she can keep her own. None of these choices are a reflection of any problem with equal rights, because they are choices.


I find modern feminism often looks for problems that aren't there, or are a lot smaller than they are presenting them.

And I say that as someone who will defend a woman's right to the end of my days.

And then having told women to not go out in the dark alone, to not get drunk alone, to not wear revealing clothes because if they do it's their fault if something happens to them, because men can't help themselves when provided with temptation, we get upset when women act as if all men are dis trustworthy and they need to be on their guard all the time.

I live in Berlin. We have women cycling and walking in dark parks alone all the time. It's a free city. We like it like this. I'll still call out feminist-overreaction when I see it. Doesn't mean I want to limit their freedoms, does it?

You're playing strawman too in your post, even tho' we both agree, essentially, that gender violence is a big problem.

Football in general has come a long way since the days of throwing bananas on the pitch, and thank God it has.

Amen.

To someone like her it must be disconcerting seeing what the average Evertonian is like because I'd say the average Evetonian is fairly insulated from the problems she must face on a daily basis so they'd have no reason to really look into that kind of thing. This is mostly because the average Evertonian grew up in Liverpool which is a very un-mixed city compared to Birmingham so it's not surprising if she feels the way she does, especially if she looks hard enough for it because at the end of the day in a crowd of 40,000 people you will find the odd racist and BNP supporter plus I don't think many people in the crowd would have a high opinion of Muslims when the news is always running anti-Muslim stories and giving nutjobs like Anjem Choudary airtime.

Still, I'm glad she's an Evertonian and can see that Everton isn't a racist or sexist club, it's great to hear that Everton has reach beyond just Liverpool and the immediate area. One thing I'd like to know though is why she's an Everton supporter, I'd like to hear how someone from Birmingham with no ties to Liverpool is an Everton supporter, especially a female Muslim from Birmingham. It would be interesting to hear how she became an Evertonian especially when we were dire in the 90s and she had the choice of the RS and Man Utd when it sounds like she was really starting to take an interest in football. It must have been hard for her to grow up an Evertonian with most of her friends were supporting them or someone like Villa.

Good post, mate.

 

[Jay]

oops soz jay, didn't realise

you Beirut ?

Yup, used to be Lebanese_toffee on BK and NSNO

By the way, I do not agree or disagree with the article, never been in UK in my life so don’t know much about such things, found it on twitter and posted here since it’s an interesting topic, now will sit back and read the replies since it’s a local not very much related to football issue and as an international blue, none of my business

 

[dholliday]

as an international blue, none of my business

You can still have an opinion, Jay.

I left UK in 2005, and never lived in Liverpool. Doesn't stop me from spouting

 

[Jay]

You can still have an opinion, Jay.

I left UK in 2005, and never lived in Liverpool. Doesn't stop me from spouting

On a personal level, I am a mid-thirties white male, so when I visit Goodison park I will look just like all the rest of the fans

But after years of being the only Lebanese Evertonian, this couple of years (thanks to twitter)I met around 20 others, all of them became blue in the last 2-3 years which means one thing, our global fanbase is really growing which means there will be people from different nationalities/races/religions visiting Goodison in the next few years.

I will use myself as an example, been an Evertonian for over 10 years now and one of my dreams is to travel to UK and watch a game at Goodison, imagine when the day comes and I do achieve that dream and while entering the ground or in the ground I hear a racist/sexist/sectarian comment about myself, dream will turn to a nightmare

So the locals should take notice, especially if we continue the success on the field, Everton is slowly becoming a global name, embrace it but without erasing the traditions and history

 

[hullefc]

On a personal level, I am a mid-thirties white male, so when I visit Goodison park I will look just like all the rest of the fans

But after years of being the only Lebanese Evertonian, this couple of years (thanks to twitter)I met around 20 others, all of them became blue in the last 2-3 years which means one thing, our global fanbase is really growing which means there will be people from different nationalities/races/religions visiting Goodison in the next few years.

I will use myself as an example, been an Evertonian for over 10 years now and one of my dreams is to travel to UK and watch a game at Goodison, imagine when the day comes and I do achieve that dream and while entering the ground or in the ground I hear a racist/sexist/sectarian comment about myself, dream will turn to a nightmare

So the locals should take notice, especially if we continue the success on the field, Everton is slowly becoming a global name, embrace it but without erasing the traditions and history

Mate, we have some racists that support us, and some like to make snide digs at others but the vast majority of Evertonians are not racist. When we scored you'll be hug by 'strangers' like the rest of us.

 

[dholliday]

On a personal level, I am a mid-thirties white male, so when I visit Goodison park I will look just like all the rest of the fans

But after years of being the only Lebanese Evertonian, this couple of years (thanks to twitter)I met around 20 others, all of them became blue in the last 2-3 years which means one thing, our global fanbase is really growing which means there will be people from different nationalities/races/religions visiting Goodison in the next few years.

I will use myself as an example, been an Evertonian for over 10 years now and one of my dreams is to travel to UK and watch a game at Goodison, imagine when the day comes and I do achieve that dream and while entering the ground or in the ground I hear a racist/sexist/sectarian comment about myself, dream will turn to a nightmare

So the locals should take notice, especially if we continue the success on the field, Everton is slowly becoming a global name, embrace it but without erasing the traditions and history

Nice post, mate...but as hullefc says I wouldn't worry about it. Every large crowd of people has the odd tw@t among them, even Evertonians. Place on "ignore" and embrace the rest

 

[Pat's Van]

there used to be loads of lebanese in Liverpool, it was the gold stuff

used to fluff up quite a lot when you burnt it, was a really nice mellow toke too

don't see it so much nowadays

 

[Minimeister]

To be honest though she has got a point with the whole whiteness thing, I wouldn't call it white supremacy or racism but I reckon most Evertonians are predominantly working class white males who aren't exactly the most clued up about race or gender issues. To someone like her it must be disconcerting seeing what the average Evertonian is like because I'd say the average Evetonian is fairly insulated from the problems she must face on a daily basis so they'd have no reason to really look into that kind of thing. This is mostly because the average Evertonian grew up in Liverpool which is a very un-mixed city compared to Birmingham so it's not surprising if she feels the way she does, especially if she looks hard enough for it because at the end of the day in a crowd of 40,000 people you will find the odd racist and BNP supporter plus I don't think many people in the crowd would have a high opinion of Muslims when the news is always running anti-Muslim stories and giving nutjobs like Anjem Choudary airtime.

Still, I'm glad she's an Evertonian and can see that Everton isn't a racist or sexist club, it's great to hear that Everton has reach beyond just Liverpool and the immediate area. One thing I'd like to know though is why she's an Everton supporter, I'd like to hear how someone from Birmingham with no ties to Liverpool is an Everton supporter, especially a female Muslim from Birmingham. It would be interesting to hear how she became an Evertonian especially when we were dire in the 90s and she had the choice of the RS and Man Utd when it sounds like she was really starting to take an interest in football. It must have been hard for her to grow up an Evertonian with most of her friends were supporting them or someone like Villa.

Fine post sir.