No fight

[Osamabindiesel]

Some of our players are too willing to accept a defeat and it winds me up. You look at the RS and they just don't know when they are beaten.

Arrogance goes a long way in getting results.

 

[bitter-no-better]

What bothers me the most is that if we had taken care of Wolves and Bournemouth, I think we crush Huddersfield and West Ham with a confident side.

This whole Everton capitulation complex started in Roberto’s second season in the first game against Arsenal. WE ABSOLUTELY dominated them and switched off tremendously in the last 20 or so. The game ended up in a draw, and it set the tone for the whole season.

We threw away so many results after that game. You can argue that Koeman and Allardyce instilled some discipline (at least for a while), but we’ve been lacking in consistency since Moyes. We are desperate for another Cahil/Fellaini type influence. Richarlison is the only player we have that has both the willpower and skill to take over a game. Nobody else has that fight.

Remember that arsenal game well. We went into the season with confidence and where cruising at two nil. Then backed off as we do.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Started watching us in the late sixties boys pen.Suppose I was spoilt. Great team to watch. But that team could also put themselves about. Lots of hard teams like Leeds, City we would match them if that's what they wanted. Bally would go mad if he thought someone wasn't trying.

Even the 70s we weren't great but the team had a bit if fight

80s great team to watch. Leaders like Reidy, if the going got tough the tough would get going.

Fast forward to today. Still love the team weekend is ruined when we get beat. Last few years we have had no leaders. Team goes a goal down they start to collapse. How many big defeats over the last few years. These players get paid mega money but there's no fight in a lot of them. No dishing the hard stuff out, no questioning the decisions of referees. You could see straightaway that the arses second goal was offside but nothing from our players. We should have all been around the ref. I sit there watching them, 2 nil down-not thinking we can still get back in this but wondering [Poor language removed] how many more will we concede. Some of them it doesn't hurt them getting beat like the fans. Compare that to the RS they can be 4-0 down and I'm still thinking they will get back in this. Seems to be instilled in their team from an early age.

Don't have the answers but maybe we need players with character as well as the skills.

Thought the team showed plenty of fight yesterday. It was cohesion and skill they seemed to lack. Give Marco another 12 weeks and a proper CF and you may see a different side.

 

[brieverton]

The worst of it is this: EVERYONE is conditioned to accept a collapse as legitimate. Players, managers and fans...and the media who report on us see it as an Everton trait. Even the new manager yesterday failed to call the collapse out. He just focused on the first 60 minutes and the offside goal.

This is an instititional charactetristic now. It's part of Everton just like the Leitch buttresses and Toffees and Dixie Dean. It's what we're known for. And anyone kidding themselves that it didn't go on repeatedly under Moyes needs to look at the number maulings we took from a goal or two down that turned into 5/6/7 nil pumpings.

It's the Everton Way and has been since Royle walked.

I agree. The rabble at Sky referred to yesterday as a 'stock win' for Arsenal. Nothing to see here, move along.

It was only one game but in converse, that's the entire problem.

I would have accepted a draw yesterday as ok at a place where we get nothing but we did get nothing. We get nothing exceedingly well.

The older players have dined out on this mentality for years - there are now generations of Everton players who have never experienced getting anything other than a pretty routine, unchallenging win over the line. And know nothing of the opposite.

And worse, this affects the new players.

Yesterday was no big deal in the grand scheme of things, and that seems understood and accepted inside and outside the club.

That's a cancer for the club. I don't know who, what, or how we'll rid ourselves of it.

 

[ijjysmith]

Why would most of these players ‘fight’ to play for Everton then most have little or no ambition for the club to do well?

 

[davek]

View attachment 49906

Points attained from losing position.

This data backs up some of your theory.

Moyes did instill a fighting spirit in the team.

Koeman inherited a lot of the Martinez players who did not gain points when we went behind.

Last season this has improved.

The concern now would be is Silva going to be another Martinez. Time will tell I suppose.

Tells only half the story. Literally. There's fight involved gaining the lead and holding onto and building on it.

 

[Harryflashman]

Thought the team showed plenty of fight yesterday. It was cohesion and skill they seemed to lack.

I find myself agreeing with that really , with some issues with us lacking composure as well . we could have easily found ourselves a couple of goals up meaning Arsenal scoring felt inevitable.

 

[Coggy]

The main issue with our team is our defence, poorly drilled and too slow every one of them, right now of all our defenders I'd only keep 2 Dinge and Mina and only keep Mina because I haven't seen him play for us yet, bin the rest. This obviously gets into the heads of the attackers imigine going out every game knowing that you have to score at least 2 to get anything out of the game probably 3 or more to win, get stubbs back to work on defence it went to pot after he left at the start of Martinz 2nd season, and for the love of God get rid of Duncan Ferguson he's the only common factor under the last 4 failed managers.

Aahh , it's all Big Duncs fault.
What possible logic leads you to that conclusion lad ?

 

[RomanReigns]

look at milner

the guy is like 90 years old but still wants to hack down neymar like a rabid dog

our players could learn a thing or 2 from him

 

[Coggy]

I thought the team played well yesterday.
When the other signings are playing I think that we will have a good season this year , playing better football too.
I expect the normal brickbats from the resident doom mongerers, but they know who they are , and I don't think that they would be won over if the seas could be parted

 

[Coggy]

look at milner

the guy is like 90 years old but still wants to hack down neymar like a rabid dog

our players could learn a thing or 2 from him

I agree.
But if you don't play in red you can't get away with doing it.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

Hang on, we dominated the first half against a supposed superior side, lost out to a class finish from Lacazette and another appalling referring decision, and suddenly the world has caved in. At least wait until we have lost at home to Fulham before coming to such a conclusion.

 

[Agent Blue]

The culture of mediocrity that you are describing goes all the way back to the days of Moyes, and people love Moyes and some would even have him back as manager. The only common factor i see all the time in any of this is Kenwright, and he is still hanging around now even with a new owner/regime. Id really like to see if things are different without him involved, maybe they would'nt be but im interested to know.

I'm not a massive fan of David Moyes but I don't think the mediocrity goes back to his tenure, he recruited really well with the meagre amount of cash that was available, think Tim Cahill or Seamus, although Jimmy Lumsden also played a major part in that imo. When he left we had a well drilled and solid back four, something that no manager since has been able to replicate.

The rot set in with Martinez when we became "too nice" you could see the fight start to drain out of the players toward the end of his first season and it has been downhill ever since. If anyone disagreed with his methods they were given the bullet, with Distin being one of the more notable players on the receiving end. Also his persistence with players like Howard and Alcaraz just just set a benchmark for how little effort/skill was required at our club.

Your assessment of Kenwright however is spot on and there are probably quite a few GOT'ers who would like to know if things would be different if he wasn't involved at the club.

 

[Lanolin]

Players in not believing they’re likely to come back from 2-0 down away at a better team shocker.

 

[degsy]

Along with the Gold Bentleys, there are too many playing for the name on the back of the shirt, rather than the name on the front...and I dont mean sportpesa.