Nikica Jelavic

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Tubey said:
It takes a degree of class to get instinctively into the right areas to pull the trigger in the way you describe. That instinct is completely gone and you have to look at the coaching and the mentality.

Especially with the track record of the last 10 years. It can't be a coincidence.
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Yes, I concede Moyes' record with forwards is pretty dire. But I think you're overstressing the channel work he has to do that destroyed so many forwards in the past. He had to do a lot of chasing around last season too but still got amongst the goals. And look at his play through the middle - he's not timing his runs a lot of the time, as his offside rate testifies to.
 
KUEFC09U2 said:
Jesus you will blame Moyes for litreally EVERYTHING, well its looking like you will get your wish next year when he leaves, and i hope to god you are still around when we are back in the bottom half.
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Well Tubey's spot on about the strikers and tactics. Its nonsensical to say that he has no faults and that we'll be bottom half when he decides to leave. Utterly nonsensical.
 
slimspek said:
Exactly. He has missed absolute sitters when he has had good service.

Really Jelavic's assets are really only his first touch and movement in the box. Jelavic isn't the the type of player who is going to grab a bunch of assists or be involved in build up play. He's a finisher and that is it. The nice thing about him and Anichebe playing together is that they complement each other well. Vic holds up the ball, bullies defenders, and gives Jelavic the ball.
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Agreed. He's limited as a forward on the evidence so far. He got a jump on the PL defenders last season and was able to do a lot of good work anticipating their mistakes and bagged a few goals. I think he needs to get a few more strings to his bow, tbh.
 
davek said:
Yes, I concede Moyes' record with forwards is pretty dire. But I think you're overstressing the channel work he has to do that destroyed so many forwards in the past. He had to do a lot of chasing around last season too but still got amongst the goals. And look at his play through the middle - he's not timing his runs a lot of the time, as his offside rate testifies to.
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For me, it's all about confidence. Once he's been asked to do things he isn't comfortable with, it's taking from his natural game, and when he's had the chances fall to him, he's over-eager and fluffing his lines.

I really do think Moyes has no idea whatsoever handling instinctive goalscorers. Everyone in his side has to play a defensive role, and sometimes you just need the point of attack for conversion alone. United today had Van Persie do that, alongside Rooney who had the industry. Moyes has never and in my view will never know how to use that system.

In regards to today, the first thing I remember Jelavic doing was chasing the ball down, gaining possession, then trotting to the right wing for an easy lay off. Then, instead of moving back to a central role, he went even wider to provide an option, despite being within 10 yards of Neville. When the ball was lofted in to the attacking third, he was 20 yards behind play.

That summed it up for me.
 
Tubey said:
For me, it's all about confidence. Once he's been asked to do things he isn't comfortable with, it's taking from his natural game, and when he's had the chances fall to him, he's over-eager and fluffing his lines.

I really do think Moyes has no idea whatsoever handling instinctive goalscorers. Everyone in his side has to play a defensive role, and sometimes you just need the point of attack for conversion alone. United today had Van Persie do that, alongside Rooney who had the industry. Moyes has never and in my view will never know how to use that system.

In regards to today, the first thing I remember Jelavic doing was chasing the ball down, gaining possession, then trotting to the right wing for an easy lay off. Then, instead of moving back to a central role, he went even wider to provide an option, despite being within 10 yards of Neville. When the ball was lofted in to the attacking third, he was 20 yards behind play.

That summed it up for me.
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I dont think that's a luxury even United can have, tbh. All forwards these days track back and cover a lot of ground. The days of the fox in the box forward are well behind us. Jelavic may have had that luxury at Rangers but he'll never have it in a top league.
 
KUEFC09U2 said:
Jesus you will blame Moyes for litreally EVERYTHING, well its looking like you will get your wish next year when he leaves, and i hope to god you are still around when we are back in the bottom half.
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you will laugh if we're in the bottom half? jagielka, distin, baines, fellaini, gibson, osman, mirallas, pienaar, jelavic, anichebe

who out of those lot are bottom half players?

moyes has won nothing in 11 years, has only achieved an FA Cup final and a 4th placed finish, whilst teams like portsmouth, swansea/barnsley, birmingham have won something and even cardiff have got to more finals. He has also failed to get 1 win in 47 away at the sky 4, i'm not even going to bother with the teams who have been there and won in that time. He also makes the same mistake over and over and over again, which has been highlighted even more this season. Lacks the nous to kill off small teams at home and has a problem with getting every team we have really fired up to win a game when it really matters.

he's been great for us, but he has many many flaws. Who else on here would play neville in centre mid. Who else would have given heitinga 2nd, 3rd, 4th and more chances this season instead of duffy? who would have drawn up a shortlist of about 5 players for the whole of the jan transfer window to help get us 4th.

he's ruined strikers before like he has with jelavic, just highlighting his inability to learn from mistakes
 
davek said:
I dont think that's a luxury even United can have, tbh. All forwards these days track back and cover a lot of ground. The days of the fox in the box forward are well behind us. Jelavic may have had that luxury at Rangers but he'll never have it in a top league.
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I'm not saying that he should do absolutely nothing, but I don't understand why he's being asked to traipse into wide areas all the time. Van Persie drops back to the half way line fairly regularly (dispossessed Felli there late on today) - I don't know why Jelavic has to track runners in our offensive third and be that far behind the ball when we counter.

The same problem occurs when we counter attack from an opposition corner too. For some reason, EVERY single player is pulled back into the penalty box to defend every corner no matter who the opposition is. Pienaar or someone will come clear with the ball every now and again, look up and nobody is ready to provide the option to chase from the halfway line.

Certain things about Moyes puzzles me tactically, and I know it does for quite a few others. Lots of sides have the striker as a focal point to attacks - Newcastle did it with Ba; one did the goalscoring duties alone, the other worked the channels and chased deeper (Cisse by and large). Are we no better than Newcastle? What is seriously stopping Jelavic simply leading the line and having Naismith do the legwork up top (which is comfortably his strongest ability)?
 
i don't see why jelavic should be asked to track back and do all this running either. We play 4 defenders a keeper and a defensive mid, that's more than half our team to do the defending. Rather he saves his energy and keeps all his running to towards the opposition goal. Moyes succeeded with marcus bent, but he wasn't a goalscorer, it's like he tries to turn every striker he buys into another marcus bent. If i was manager and i had yakubu on my team, i'd tell him to sit down in the opposition box, as long as he stood up when the ball was near and tapped in the only chance he got in the whole 90 mins then that would please me - that's his job.

It's what strikers are paid for. i wouldn't take a job where my contract pays me to be a computer techinician, but i also have to do the work of the receptionist ffs
 
How many really top top class centre forwards are there in the league this season anyway?

They aren't easy to find, and if they are around they are out of our price range I'm afraid. Jelavic is probably the best we can afford.
 
TBH the cameras looked at him on the bench today & boy did he look fed up - we needed both he & Victor upfront today with Feli in midfield - Gibson did not look fit & Osman did a few things but he looks leggy!
 
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