New Everton Stadium - Hill Dickinson Stadium

[Benicetoourboys]

Are they singing in Club View ?

Probably not, okay then everyone else sing except the posh seats.

 

[Holytrinity]

I feel there is a shift in the supporters mentality due to the displacement of fans. I had a seat in Lower Gwladys for nearly 30 years, when there was a minutes applause for someone who had passed everyone stood up and applauded for the full minute, as a sign of respect. I know sit in the 3rd row of Upper South. On Saturday there was the minutes applause at 33 minutes we stood up straight away, some took a few few seconds to stand up. The first two rows of the Upper South continued to sit down. If these people can't show respect I'm not sure they will sing.

 

[Connor mcloud]

Probably not, okay then everyone else sing except the posh seats.

Village street join in with the singing, more so than the North stand

 

[Benicetoourboys]

Village street join in with the singing, more so than the North stand

Apologies.

 

[allen]

Of course it does, along with with other factors like ticket allocation.

The stadium design is brilliant for singing. You only need listen to the away fans to hear that.

The problem is the scattering of fans from Goodison.

The people who helped build the momentum of songs from being sat in the same vicinity are now distributed across the new stadium. The voices people listened out for - consciously or unconsciously - aren't where they used to be.

You can't replace 130 years of organic fan clustering in a season.

It'll take time.

 

[RobYoung]

The old Gwlady's Street Terrace had no roof until the late 80's when they redesigned the roof structure.
Bayern Munich was the best atmosphere ever, without any help of any sort of acoustics.

If the team gives us something to shout and be loud about, we will. If they play like they play now the atmosphere will not improve.
Not Dan Meis' fault.

And please no Ultra-style like the bores at Crystal Palace.

 

[Tom Hughes]

At some point we need to draw a line under the acoustics business, it's not changing. People love excuses, if they can blame it on the building being why it's poor they will take that. Don't let them off the hook, it's purely we are supposed to have 5k 'ultras' in that safe standing end and they are anything but.

I don't think people questioning the acoustics are "looking for excuses".... more about simply identifying actual reasons. For the most part, these issues are entirely objective and measurable, and could even lead to some (partial) solutions..... as opposed to those simply saying "well, Goodison wasn't always a great atmosphere", or "it will be loud when the team performs" and/or when the fans are up for the "big occasion," or we're just not like the Germans etc (In essence they are "excuses"). The stated design-brief wasn't for a home-end that was only loud when everything was going well. It was literally stated as being for a Blue Wall that simulated the Yellow Wall at Dortmund..... A home-end designed to help prompt atmosphere by providing a platform that creates that intensity by maximising acoustic leverage, to help maintain good noise levels all the time by allowing chants to spread, and not just when things are going well....... ie The very definition of designing for home-field-advantage.

As I said, the main issue as regards home-end acoustics is quite quantifiable in simple terms. In approximate numbers, the basic acoustic catchment are as follows:

The South Stand has a catchment of approximately 28 rows. The Yellow wall at Dortmund (in seated mode) has one of 50 rows..... in standing mode that equates to approx 100 rows. In otherwords, acoustically, there is little to no comparison.

Further examples closer to home:

The Kop (Anfield) has a catchment of approx 60 rows. Even the new Anfield Rd Stand Road has one of 53 rows. The Gallowgate end at St James Park is also approximately 50 rows.

So, while the barrel roof gives great reverberation metrics for the stadium atmosphere as a whole, it appears to do little to help the issue of generating the noise to start with..... in the home-end(s).

You suggested a partial solution with a 10 row extension of the South stand upper, which alone would increase that catchment figure by 30%. Similarly, Bilbao had to extend their roof due to weather effects.... which as well as improving weather protection, greatly increased the noise levels by increasing catchments by 30-50%.

As far as the atmosphere at German stadia are concerned..... it isn't so much a matter of German culture.... but more one of traditional terrace culture that they've never lost. In Dortmund's case they simply created a large terraced stand with traditional home-end acoustics and a large capacity. We didn't! (Yet), and we also ensured that the most vociferous in our fanbase benefitted the least from whatever acoustic quality there is..... by placing them furthest away from the roof.

 

[dannyboy]

That image shows where the 1878s chose to put the flags.

For me it shows the disconnect between the upper and lower section. The stand would've been far better as just one section.

I went in the upper for the Arsenal game and couldn't even stand up for a corner down that end of the ground without people moaning. This wouldn't be as much of a problem if the upper section wasn't considerably bigger than the lower.

 

[Gardocki]

Of course it does, along with with other factors like ticket allocation.

Not our stadium. Its perfectly suited for singing. The acoustics are fantastic. The stands are steep and close to the pitch.

Ticket allocation is not a stadium issue, its a fan issue. Our fans picked where they wanted to sit. They were well aware that the south stand was planned as being big home end where the club wanted vociferous fans to go and sing. The club made that as obvious as they could. They can't force our fans to sing or stop them from choosing their seat in that stand unless they sign some sort of singing contract.

It's the fans that are responsible for making the atmosphere. Blaming the stadium is just an excuse.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

The stated design-brief wasn't for a home-end that was only loud when everything was going well. It was literally stated as being for a Blue Wall that simulated the Yellow Wall at Dortmund.....

I always cringe a little when I see the continual comparisons to the Yellow Wall at Dortmund. A search of this thread for 'Yellow' brings up too many posts, IMO.

Maybe a slight comparison at one stage, but then as you say, this happened;

One of, if not the biggest design feature sold to us was the south stand's comparisons with Dortmund's South Tribune (Yellow Wall)..... but this was watered down from the original design, with less rows and a much larger (and slightly divisive) super-riser (which unlike Spurs super-riser, is an actual wall).

... and then they watered down further, by chipping into either side of the goal with a big grey area. It's certainly not this;

I suggest we just accept, and dare I say enjoy it for what it is, rather than continually trying to compare to something it has no right being compared with.

 

[Tom Hughes]

I always cringe a little when I see the continual comparisons to the Yellow Wall at Dortmund. A search of this thread for 'Yellow' brings up too many posts, IMO.

Maybe a slight comparison at one stage, but then as you say, this happened;



... and then they watered down further, by chipping into either side of the goal with a big grey area. It's certainly not this;

View attachment 340029

I suggest we just accept, and dare I say enjoy it for what it is, rather than continually trying to compare to something it has no right being compared with.

Precisely.

 

[BullensRoad]

I don't think people questioning the acoustics are "looking for excuses".... more about simply identifying actual reasons. For the most part, these issues are entirely objective and measurable, and could even lead to some (partial) solutions..... as opposed to those simply saying "well, Goodison wasn't always a great atmosphere", or "it will be loud when the team performs" and/or when the fans are up for the "big occasion," or we're just not like the Germans etc (In essence they are "excuses"). The stated design-brief wasn't for a home-end that was only loud when everything was going well. It was literally stated as being for a Blue Wall that simulated the Yellow Wall at Dortmund..... A home-end designed to help prompt atmosphere by providing a platform that creates that intensity by maximising acoustic leverage, to help maintain good noise levels all the time by allowing chants to spread, and not just when things are going well....... ie The very definition of designing for home-field-advantage.

As I said, the main issue as regards home-end acoustics is quite quantifiable in simple terms. In approximate numbers, the basic acoustic catchment are as follows:

The South Stand has a catchment of approximately 28 rows. The Yellow wall at Dortmund (in seated mode) has one of 50 rows..... in standing mode that equates to approx 100 rows. In otherwords, acoustically, there is little to no comparison.

Further examples closer to home:

The Kop (Anfield) has a catchment of approx 60 rows. Even the new Anfield Rd Stand Road has one of 53 rows. The Gallowgate end at St James Park is also approximately 50 rows.

So, while the barrel roof gives great reverberation metrics for the stadium atmosphere as a whole, it appears to do little to help the issue of generating the noise to start with..... in the home-end(s).

You suggested a partial solution with a 10 row extension of the South stand upper, which alone would increase that catchment figure by 30%. Similarly, Bilbao had to extend their roof due to weather effects.... which as well as improving weather protection, greatly increased the noise levels by increasing catchments by 30-50%.

As far as the atmosphere at German stadia are concerned..... it isn't so much a matter of German culture.... but more one of traditional terrace culture that they've never lost. In Dortmund's case they simply created a large terraced stand with traditional home-end acoustics and a large capacity. We didn't! (Yet), and we also ensured that the most vociferous in our fanbase benefitted the least from whatever acoustic quality there is..... by placing them furthest away from the roof.

Come on Tom, give it a rest pal.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Come on Tom, give it a rest pal.

It's a discussion thread about the stadium. If you disagree with anything said, it is customary to make a counter argument rather than just telling someone to shut-up.

 

[BlueAmigo]

You know what used to get people out of their seats at Goodison? Quick breaks where you knew we'd have a chance to score, that sound of the seats clacking back before the roar of the crowd. Currently when the ball goes forward, it pings off one of our useless forwards, or comes backwards or sideways at best. If we had a goal threat or two the atmosphere would be buoyant and positive I'm sure.

 

[SJB]

Ticket allocation is not a stadium issue, its a fan issue. Our fans picked where they wanted to sit. They were well aware that the south stand was planned as being big home end where the club wanted vociferous fans to go and sing. The club made that as obvious as they could. They can't force our fans to sing or stop them from choosing their seat in that stand unless they sign some sort of singing contract.

It's the fans that are responsible for making the atmosphere. Blaming the stadium is just an excuse.

Spot on here. The problem with the South Stand is that too many people who sit in there expected everyone else to make the atmosphere and thought they would have fun sitting among it without having to contribute.