Moyes - should he stay or should he go?

[ganistuk]

Calling for Moyes to go feels pretty knee jerk right now. Things aren't great at the moment, but there are virtually no managers who would get a team this threadbare right now to perform- just look at who was on the pitch yesterday and how many minutes they have played in the last couple of weeks.

In my mind this season was always going to be a transitional one- going away from being a struggling team and adjusting to a new stadium. Most the summer signings are younger and will need 12-18 months to adapt (Barry, Dibling, Aznou, Rohl) before we can fully judge them.

While it would be great to qualify for Europe this season I would go so far as to say the last few weeks have proven why we aren't ready for it yet- the squad isn't there yet.

This. I am somewhat surprised that such a high % of people want him out. In essence we are just about safe by Christmas and other than a couple of terrible one off results have had one extremely poor week with three games in six days with only a handful of fit senior pros. He’s probably overachieved, which has elevated short term expectations. I think the table being as close as it is, skews the fact that it was always going to take time to transition from the crisis we were in to being anywhere near a team regularly pushing for Europe and it feels like a missed opportunity if we don’t grab it now. The defining thing for me is that he hasn’t lost the players. Some of those guys were wasted in ET yesterday but still trying to run through brick walls for him. Nothing gained by making a change now at all. He needs help from the club by getting a couple of extra players in and a bit of luck with injuries the rest of the season and you never know, go on another mini run of results and we’re right back in the mix again.

 

[blueboy72]

Calling for Moyes to go feels pretty knee jerk right now. Things aren't great at the moment, but there are virtually no managers who would get a team this threadbare right now to perform- just look at who was on the pitch yesterday and how many minutes they have played in the last couple of weeks.

In my mind this season was always going to be a transitional one- going away from being a struggling team and adjusting to a new stadium. Most the summer signings are younger and will need 12-18 months to adapt (Barry, Dibling, Aznou, Rohl) before we can fully judge them.

While it would be great to qualify for Europe this season I would go so far as to say the last few weeks have proven why we aren't ready for it yet- the squad isn't there yet.

The dychettes told us for 2 years no other manager would get more out of the group he had. And now you’re saying the same thing, it’s utter nonsense.
We don’t look coached at all, constantly playing players out of position, constantly playing his favourites, not trusting younger so he’s basically killing them like Dibling. First FA cup tie at our new ground and he lets the opposition dominate the ball for the opening 15mins,
What was that all about, we should be on the front foot in their faces and that is all down to the manager.

In the last week. Brentford, wolves and Sunderland have come to our ground and had more of the ball, it’s like he’s setting up as the away team but it’s not working 3 shots on target yesterday no shots on goal 2nd half v wolves. It’s embarrassing 7 home wins in 25 since he’s been back. That’s not good enough

 

[everton1953]

Franks is probably gone this week so the pressure is mounting.

 

[Moomin]

I think dominated is a bit of a stretch.

They are one of the teams that spent more than us as well. We should be beating them, but I imagine missing the majority of our players who actually have real value, impacted that.

As an aside, the total purchase value of our squad is 13th in the league. And we are currently 12th. So could be suggested Moyes is currently slightly overachieving.

Can't wait for the end of season overachieving parade.

 

[Marcus Kendall]

Franks is probably gone this week so the pressure is mounting.

What's that got to do with Moyes?

 

[Marius57]

Can't wait for the end of season overachieving parade.

Open top busses and everything mate

 

[RD2910]

Franks is probably gone this week so the pressure is mounting.

Not sure about that, Spurs' expectation of where they should finish is surely higher than ours (although you may well argue it's higher than they are actually able to achieve).

 

[Sam0697]

The dychettes told us for 2 years no other manager would get more out of the group he had. And now you’re saying the same thing, it’s utter nonsense.
We don’t look coached at all, constantly playing players out of position, constantly playing his favourites, not trusting younger so he’s basically killing them like Dibling. First FA cup tie at our new ground and he lets the opposition dominate the ball for the opening 15mins,
What was that all about, we should be on the front foot in their faces and that is all down to the manager.

In the last week. Brentford, wolves and Sunderland have come to our ground and had more of the ball, it’s like he’s setting up as the away team but it’s not working 3 shots on target yesterday no shots on goal 2nd half v wolves. It’s embarrassing 7 home wins in 25 since he’s been back. That’s not good enough

Playing players in the wrong position- We have barely had 11 players available to us through this run- its not a case of them being out of position, just playing people wherever he can to fill out a formation. I don't love the Obrien at RB thing, but that is the only real sticking point for players being out of position. Yesterday (and the last 3 since forest) we looked like a tired team playing against a fresher opposition. They didn't play well but they ran themselves into the ground for him.

Moyes has literally said he is aiming for europe this season, he is leagues ahead of Dyche. I am not some massive Moyes fan but if you take the best defender, DM, AM and winger out of any team in this league they are going to struggle. Add in all the depth missing right now from AFCON, suspensions and other injuries and its not something the manager can really fix right away, other than trying to be compact and grind out results the best you can.

 

[Marcus Kendall]

Not sure about that, Spurs' expectation of where they should finish is surely higher than ours (although you may well argue it's higher than they are actually able to achieve).

What has Thomas Frank's future at Spurs got to do with David Moyes position at Everton?

 

[RD2910]

What has Thomas Frank's future at Spurs got to do with David Moyes position at Everton?

I presume the poster who brought it up was saying that Frank has Spurs playing poor football, underperforming in the league, hanging around mid-table and going out of the cups, and therefore Moyes's job should be under threat if Frank's is. That is just a presumption though, I don't see the connection myself.

 

[Marcus Kendall]

Playing players in the wrong position- We have barely had 11 players available to us through this run- its not a case of them being out of position, just playing people wherever he can to fill out a formation. I don't love the Obrien at RB thing, but that is the only real sticking point for players being out of position. Yesterday (and the last 3 since forest) we looked like a tired team playing against a fresher opposition. They didn't play well but they ran themselves into the ground for him.

Moyes has literally said he is aiming for europe this season, he is leagues ahead of Dyche. I am not some massive Moyes fan but if you take the best defender, DM, AM and winger out of any team in this league they are going to struggle. Add in all the depth missing right now from AFCON, suspensions and other injuries and its not something the manager can really fix right away, other than trying to be compact and grind out results the best you can.

I don't particularly blame Moyes for yesterday though he shouldn't of started Beto and he should of started Aznou but the real issue is his mentality even when we're not depleted. If we want to be solid and finish mid-table season on season whilst not competing to win the cup competitions then sure keep Moyes as he'll achieve that comfortably but I think many of the fan base want us to be more than that hence why the need for a new manager is desirable

 

[Marcus Kendall]

I presume the poster who brought it up was saying that Frank has Spurs playing poor football, underperforming in the league, hanging around mid-table and going out of the cups, and therefore Moyes's job should be under threat if Frank's is. That is just a presumption though, I don't see the connection myself.

Understand now. I'm a bit slow this morning

 

[davek]

Rohl, Aznou, Dibling - and quite possibly Barry - would all be doing much better under another manager.

Just on that basis I'd sack him for failing to make about £90M worth of signings work.

 

[Sam0697]

I don't particularly blame Moyes for yesterday though he shouldn't of started Beto and he should of started Aznou but the real issue is his mentality even when we're not depleted. If we want to be solid and finish mid-table season on season whilst not competing to win the cup competitions then sure keep Moyes as he'll achieve that comfortably but I think many of the fan base want us to be more than that hence why the need for a new manager is desirable

Long term I want more than that of course. But after the Moshiri years, I have no interest in trying to rush in without a stable base. Give Moyes some time to build that, then we can hand it off to a manager who doesn't have the same glass ceiling he does. That time isn't now though, its at the end of this season or next.

In 1-2 months time we will have NDiaye, KDH and Branthwaite all fit and firing, and we will be in a much more positive place.

 

[Bluepablo]

I think I heard that Charlie Adam on a commentary yesterday stated that we bought Barry because he won the most headers in Europe outside the premier league. If that’s true that’s Moyes MO, launching it to a target man & picking up the 2nd balls.

Even League 1 teams have moved on from this tactic.