2019/20 Moise Kean

[PhilM]

I acknowledge he made a mistake and there will be punishment, he will be fined two weeks wages and i imagine that will make its way to the NHS or EITC. No muss no fuss, we move on.

I dont think income comes into it, you can feel alone in a big house or a small one, thats a broad judgment and stereotyping again.

But here's a different spin to counter that. The lad is Italian, maybe he has friends, family people he knows effected or impacted by the horror thats gone on over there and sitting alone in his big house, without support or an out let and hes made the wrong choice with blowing of steam or holding his stress. I dont really know - but if we are being presumptive thats as likely as anything.

Id say parents around the country are having trouble controlling leary 20 yer olds in their homes, imagine then handing them 50k a week, and telling them to stay inside and see what happens. Should we really be that surprised.

Maybe the club needs to look at themselves here to, i think they were very quick to come out with a statement and i think it was very strongly worded, perhaps overly so. What have we done to create a support system for this lad during this - they are very clearly uniuqe times and no doubt everyone is feeling there way in the dark, but perhaps the club need to do more with someone who fits Moise's social profile.

You are right, when you make a mistake you either learn or continue to make it, thats one of the problems with being human we all have to face, but its natural developmental stage heading toward adulthood, whether you are footballer or not that is something we all have to do, its to early to type cast Mosie in my opinion.

Personally id disagree with GOT, i think the evidence is anecdotal;, there is a presumption he was taken of because of attitude after coming on, but really Duncan explained that wasn't the case. Hes young and foolish and has a smart phone. I actually think hes handled a lot of stuff really well, that taking off for a start, being dropped from match day squads, his Dad in the media, a year not working out for him here in a new country, a change of manager, etc.

Hes just gone 20. I think our expectations of signing him were to high, he is very very young still. Im not prepared to write of a just gone 20 year old, either from a sporting point of view or as a character and i think some of the judgement written here in 24 hours are overly judgmental and are anecdotal and maybe unfair on him.

Sorry, again not an attack on you, but you're mixing stereotyping with profiling and using your own mitigation to defend his current actions, while ignoring others.

Firstly, I firmly disagree that the club should shoulder blame. Secondly, considering his lifestyle is just when discussed with other factors - it's not the sole factor.

I know for a fact that the players are video conferencing daily with the club and the coaching staff, while still having representatives prepare food etc. for them.

They're also regularly in contact with their agents, again to provide support, so it's not like he's been left solely alone without guidance or the support of the club.

Yes he is still relatively young and in a foreign country, which are all fair points, but he's still reaching adulthood and must be accountable for his own actions.

With regards to income, he will you suggest have (comparatively) large accommodation with an abundance of materials or resource to keep him occupied.

Now, again that's not by any means the sole point and can't be used to completely argue the case, but compare it with countless other twenty-years olds.

Personally and professionally, I know of a number of cases where similar aged youths have been caught outside / interacting for a multitude of reasons.

Many of them in Liverpool are living in small terraced houses with no ample garden space, a lack of resources and really no parental guardianship or support.

Again, I'm not excusing them at all as they shouldn't be out, but it's mitigation (positively and negatively) and Kean has to be judged in a similar way.

You're right that he may feel alone and the situation in Italy may also play a part, so when I balance it all up I still think on this occasion he's been a bit of a tit.

All the other stuff is perhaps circumstantial, however again it's starting to build a picture of him (profiling) that currently doesn't show him in the greatest light.

For example, I look back to Rooney when he was a youth and all his antics and unfortunately it painted quite an accurate picture of how he turned out.

I could reel off quite a few other players who again had an abundance of talent, but their mentality washed it away. I just don't want Kean to fall into that bracket.

A firm but fair response from the club, which will perhaps upset him in the short-term, with a loving arm from Carlo later would be my approach.

"Massive party" haha.

Okay, perhaps it wasn't a massive party, but did he have non-members of his household in his apartment? How many did he have?

 

[4737carlin]

Just sell and move on, he will never be any good, another Lookman, wont be missed

 

[Neiler]

Sorry, again not an attack on you, but you're mixing stereotyping with profiling and using your own mitigation to defend his current actions, while ignoring others.

Firstly, I firmly disagree that the club should shoulder blame. Secondly, considering his lifestyle is just when discussed with other factors - it's not the sole factor.

I know for a fact that the players are video conferencing daily with the club and the coaching staff, while still having representatives prepare food etc. for them.

They're also regularly in contact with their agents, again to provide support, so it's not like he's been left solely alone without guidance or the support of the club.

Yes he is still relatively young and in a foreign country, which are all fair points, but he's still reaching adulthood and must be accountable for his own actions.

With regards to income, he will you suggest have (comparatively) large accommodation with an abundance of materials or resource to keep him occupied.

Now, again that's not by any means the sole point and can't be used to completely argue the case, but compare it with countless other twenty-years olds.

Personally and professionally, I know of a number of cases where similar aged youths have been caught outside / interacting for a multitude of reasons.

Many of them in Liverpool are living in small terraced houses with no ample garden space, a lack of resources and really no parental guardianship or support.

Again, I'm not excusing them at all as they shouldn't be out, but it's mitigation (positively and negatively) and Kean has to be judged in a similar way.

You're right that he may feel alone and the situation in Italy may also play a part, so when I balance it all up I still think on this occasion he's been a bit of a tit.

All the other stuff is perhaps circumstantial, however again it's starting to build a picture of him (profiling) that currently doesn't show him in the greatest light.


Okay, perhaps it wasn't a massive party, but did he have non-members of his household in his apartment? How many did he have?

Fair points mate, again no offence intended, i think its semantics in terms of profiling and stereotyping, i think you cant list all the benefits and differences he has a footballer to other 20 years old, with out projecting an identity of "stereotypical footballer".

The media narrative is of course - entitled footballer thinks rules dont apply to him, im just adding potential holistic context. Im just pointing out the universality of human development, he has the very same holistic development needs as any other 20 year old you want to mitigate against, more so arguably given hes outside his own country, support network, ritual routines and family during a life threatening crisis - unlike many other non - footballers, who are right now flouting the rules - 20 years old will always need support but they also need to break rules and challenge boundaries, it may not be right but its universal and hardly surprising or scandalous in my opinion - they will always make mistakes (Tom Davies wardrobe springs to mind). They are trying to form an adult identity and part of that is challenging boundaries, making mistakes and learning. There are more holistic needs in life then financial and material. Im just pointing some of them out and applying them to Moise. Perhaps the club have underestimated them and the uniqueness of them.

We share a different opinion on it and thats fine, i think we both explained are reasoning and positioning well. Im happy to chalk this one up as a bit of a strorm in a tea cup. We are fickle bunch and if he scores a hatrick, in the first game of next season, we will all be jumping to his defense if a similar story pops up.

 

[GwladysPhil]

It's indefensible, but I'm suspecting a lot of young rich footballers are doing the same, just a shame ours is stupid enough to post footage of him doing it.

Grealish did far worse FYI.

 

[phil_t98]

It's indefensible, but I'm suspecting a lot of young rich footballers are doing the same, just a shame ours is stupid enough to post footage of him doing it.

Grealish did far worse FYI.

what was worse with Grealish?

 

[PhilM]

Fair points mate, again no offence intended, i think its semantics in terms of profiling and stereotyping, i think you cant list all the benefits and differences he has a footballer to other 20 years old, with out projecting an identity "stereotypical footballer".

The media narrative is of course - entitled footballer thinks rules dont apply to him, im just adding potential holistic context. Im just pointing out the universality of human development, he has the very same holistic development needs as any other 20 year old you want to mitigate against, more so arguably given hes outside his own country, support network, ritual routines and family - unlike many other non - footballers who are right now flouting the rules. There are more holistic needs in life then financial and material. Im just pointing some of them out and apllying them to Moise. Perhaps the club have underestimated them and the uniqueness of them.

We share a different opinion on it and thats fine, i think we both explained are reasoning and positioning well. Im happy to chalk this one up as a bit of a strorm in a tea cup. We are fickle bunch and if he scores a hatrick, in the first game of next season, we will all be jumping to his defense if a similar story pops up.

The media will always have a furore about it, and I do feel that sadly race, age and nationality will play a part in their portrayal of the situation - look at Sterling.

Hopefully, most people look beyond that and make their own judgements although I'm not naive enough to understand that large swathes will adopt their view.

I perhaps just desire (expect) more from him and are worried that this incident may be part of a bigger picture; I sincerely hope I'm wrong but who knows.

If he scores a few goals however, you're right that it will probably be forgotten by most; if he doesn't, it'll almost certainly be used as further ammunition.

 

[GwladysPhil]

what was worse with Grealish?

Not only did he go to another property (oppose to people going to Keans property) he also attempted to drive back drunk, bumped into some car or cars, left it and tried to collect it next day.

Imagine if he'd injured someone, not what our NHS needs right now.

 

[Deleted member 48881]

Well technically he hasn't broken the law, has he?

Just a young player being absolutely stupid, a shame but not surprising. It's hardly being arrested for smacking your missus (Niasse), driving yourself home after 10 pints (Rooney) or running over a cyclist whilst boozed up first thing in the morning (Gibson).

Football people in general just haven't grasped the seriousness of this pandemic. It's no wonder players themselves (especially young ones) aren't listening to the guidelines, everyone from the FA on down is trying to act like this is all just an early summer holiday and football will be back soon no problem. Players can hardly be expected to take this lockdown seriously when the game's authorities clearly aren't.

House parties are banned since the lockdown was introduced, so technically he broke the law, yes

 

[Lloydystark]

A fine and telling off by the club and that’s it... Moaning will stop once something else happens in the news, lads young and rich and has made a mistake, not the first and certainly won’t be the last, I imagine loads are doing the same but not stupid enough to get caught

 

[monty]

Firstly balotelli had an excellent career. Was vastly superior to Kean at that age. The comparisons to balotelli started in the Italian media and the reason he was not compared to cassano or the many other young Italian players who partied too much is purely his race.

Since when did Balotelli have a excellent career, you must be in a minority of one to have that belief. Incidentally I don't read the Italian media I must assume you do. You berate me for being racist when comparing this idiot with the idiot Balotelli which in itself is most odd. You ignore the facts, yes they are both Italian, young, head strong. They both left Italy at an early age, both struggled with their style of play in this country and both got into trouble with the authorities. I hope I'm not confusing you with fact. Some how you conclude that Kean has more in common with Grealish than Balotelli how you achieve that claim is mystifying. Gealish has, never lived in Italy, never lived on Merseyside but he has captain his club side. All three are narks but in fairness to Grealish he remains with his home town club and is hero worshipped by fans he grew up with. Obviously he is white, that's in relation to your claimed racist connotations. I'll leave it there as your posting is beneath contempt, if something gets posted on this site that is racist I'm in the forefront of those asking for it's removal. For you to attempt to conjure up a charge against me for racism makes me wonder where this world is going to, you should be ashamed

 

[witchdoc187]

Sorry, again not an attack on you, but you're mixing stereotyping with profiling and using your own mitigation to defend his current actions, while ignoring others.

Firstly, I firmly disagree that the club should shoulder blame. Secondly, considering his lifestyle is just when discussed with other factors - it's not the sole factor.

I know for a fact that the players are video conferencing daily with the club and the coaching staff, while still having representatives prepare food etc. for them.

They're also regularly in contact with their agents, again to provide support, so it's not like he's been left solely alone without guidance or the support of the club.

Yes he is still relatively young and in a foreign country, which are all fair points, but he's still reaching adulthood and must be accountable for his own actions.

With regards to income, he will you suggest have (comparatively) large accommodation with an abundance of materials or resource to keep him occupied.

Now, again that's not by any means the sole point and can't be used to completely argue the case, but compare it with countless other twenty-years olds.

Personally and professionally, I know of a number of cases where similar aged youths have been caught outside / interacting for a multitude of reasons.

Many of them in Liverpool are living in small terraced houses with no ample garden space, a lack of resources and really no parental guardianship or support.

Again, I'm not excusing them at all as they shouldn't be out, but it's mitigation (positively and negatively) and Kean has to be judged in a similar way.

You're right that he may feel alone and the situation in Italy may also play a part, so when I balance it all up I still think on this occasion he's been a bit of a tit.

All the other stuff is perhaps circumstantial, however again it's starting to build a picture of him (profiling) that currently doesn't show him in the greatest light.

For example, I look back to Rooney when he was a youth and all his antics and unfortunately it painted quite an accurate picture of how he turned out.

I could reel off quite a few other players who again had an abundance of talent, but their mentality washed it away. I just don't want Kean to fall into that bracket.

A firm but fair response from the club, which will perhaps upset him in the short-term, with a loving arm from Carlo later would be my approach.

Okay, perhaps it wasn't a massive party, but did he have non-members of his household in his apartment? How many did he have?

Dunno it looked about 4 or 5 from what little I've seen but yeah it doesn't really matter. It was a bit foolish to film it

 

[witchdoc187]

I feel sorry for his neighbours.

What, those girls? Seemed like they were enjoying it

 

[PhilM]

Dunno it looked about 4 or 5 from what little I've seen but yeah it doesn't really matter. It was a bit foolish to film it

It was far more foolish to actually meet up with other people. The fact he filmed it or allowed someone else to do so just adds to the argument.

 

[Neiler]

The media will always have a furore about it, and I do feel that sadly race, age and nationality will play a part in their portrayal of the situation - look at Sterling.

Hopefully, most people look beyond that and make their own judgements although I'm not naive enough to understand that large swathes will adopt their view.

I perhaps just desire (expect) more from him and are worried that this incident may be part of a bigger picture; I sincerely hope I'm wrong but who knows.

If he scores a few goals however, you're right that it will probably be forgotten by most; if he doesn't, it'll almost certainly be used as further ammunition.

Its a pet hate of mine mate, i didnt want to bring it up about Moise, but i would be lying if i didnt think his profile isnt a factor in the media and public reaction to this, whether conscious or subconscious. Same thing with Lookman, what did he ever really do wrong, but was framed as lazy, didnt want to be here, a rat etc. etc - completely different reactions and projections of profiles to say others similarly like Mathew Pennington or Dowell.

He might never make it here, he might, i think he has talent, but that should be down to football and not external factors or taking the moral high ground. We employ him to play football, not run the EITC creche. I like the lad, i think hes dealt with a lot but kept his trap shut, and i like that - i like his footballing skill set and i think hes very very talented (hes raw mind admittedly) - again i'm reminded of Dom and his development year on year - Moise is were Dom was three years ago, if not slightly ahead of the curve.

I do think we have to cut young players a bit of slack they will make mistakes in their private lives, its part of growing - Tom Davies's wardrobe FFS.

 

[witchdoc187]

It was far more foolish to actually meet up with other people. The fact he filmed it or allowed someone else to do so just adds to the argument.

I don't know. There's like 4 people in the house. I'm not sure it's really that dangerous. Maybe they tested them first. People are meeting up everywhere