Current Affairs Met Police

[Eidean]

Words>walking away.

The police shouldn't be escalating - which is exactly what she's done. If the officer deems that a threat to have a dog attack, she's in the wrong job.

Took a step back & in terms of self-defence it’s technically irrelevant, if that officer can honestly say they felt threatened.

The police have been attacked over the last 48 hours, she’s well within her right to think it.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Not necessarily, escalating to de-escalate can often nip things in the bud. The dog being there at all is an escalation in that sense.

Nah, it absolutely didn't there - did it?

She went rogue/stepped out of police line and set a dog on someone who was shouting.

Took a step back & in terms of self-defence it’s technically irrelevant, if that officer can honestly say they felt threatened.

The police have been attacked over the last 48 hours, she’s well within her right to think it.

Laughing. Absolutely no way.

What an officer says doesn't matter when you have footage of what happened.

As I say, if she said she felt threatened there - she's in the wrong job. She went on the front foot - away from her colleagues to escalate.

 

[Eidean]

Nah, it absolutely didn't there - did it?

She went rogue/stepped out of police line and set a dog on someone who was shouting.



Laughing. Absolutely no way.

What an officer says doesn't matter when you have footage of what happened.

As I say, if she said she felt threatened there - she's in the wrong job. She went on the front foot - away from her colleagues to escalate.

With all due respect, it’s not for me & you to decide if that officer felt threatened however she’ll be 100% able to explain her actions.

The second bloke putting the baton into the lads leg on the floor will have a harder time explaining his actions.

Seen youre taking that position, you agree that the Manchester Airport armed response officer is in the wrong job?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

With all due respect, it’s not for me & you to decide if that officer felt threatened however she’ll be 100% able to explain her actions.

It absolutely is.

"I felt threatened" isn't carte blanche to attack someone, mate.

That's as good a case study as any for how police shouldn't escalate.

[Edit] Here's an example;

Senior Bristol officer sacked for punching two women

Tola Munro has a distinguished career tackling violence against women and girls.

www.bbc.co.uk

• Ms Jones said he has police "experience and training" to "rise above provocation" and must take "full responsibility for his conduct".

In other words, he can't slap people around because he says he felt threatened by words.

The second bloke putting the baton into the lads leg on the floor will have a harder time explaining his actions.

Indeed, and that happened directly as a consequence of that officer/dog attack. The guy tries to help release the dog bite.

Seen youre taking that position, you agree that the Manchester Airport armed response officer is in the wrong job?

No correlation whatsoever. Shouty words>walking away is clearly not in the ball park of viciously attacking multiple police.

If they started wading punches in/breaking noses/were attacking that dog handler, then absolutely - all bets are off and have the dog go for the throat.

 

[BigDunc'sFod]

No they witness there dad protecting them from scum of the earth!

What would you do if someone smacked you while you was with your wife and kids? Call the police or hit him back?

Not the only two options there though are they mate.

A few months ago, I was riding the subway with a fellow parent. Me with my lad, and him with his daughters (3.5 and 7). His youngest sat on the seat to look out of the window.

After a few mins, he realised that she was encroaching, a little, on another passenger. Since she was so young, he moved her off the seat and lightly chastised her.

Next thing you know, passenger turns into a nob head, spouting a bunch of racist rubbish and screaming in his face (while he's holding his daughter's hand). Next thing I know, racist punches the father in the face.

At this point, I think we're headed for a showdown. Two pretty muscular adults in an argument that just got physical. Instead, the dad said something like "I'm sorry my daughter touched you with her foot, and I understand it made you angry, but I've addressed it. She's three." Then he got off the subway.

This level of restraint in the face of almost unprovoked and certainly disproportionate aggression was incredible to witness. I thought to myself what a wonderful father and role model. Now, his three year old probably didn't understand what was playing out, but he certainly showed her that smashing someone's face in wasn't the way to solve a dispute.

I grew up in Liverpool obviously, not New York, and even as someone who was not a fighter I understood that you can't sit there and take everything without retaliation. I have no doubt if it had got even more physical or if either of the kids had been hurt it could have escalated differently, but I was proud of him in that moment and made sure I said it out loud.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Not the only two options there though are they mate.

A few months ago, I was riding the subway with a fellow parent. Me with my lad, and him with his daughters (3.5 and 7). His youngest sat on the seat to look out of the window.

After a few mins, he realised that she was encroaching, a little, on another passenger. Since she was so young, he moved her off the seat and lightly chastised her.

Next thing you know, passenger turns into a nob head, spouting a bunch of racist rubbish and screaming in his face (while he's holding his daughter's hand). Next thing I know, racist punches the father in the face.

At this point, I think we're headed for a showdown. Two pretty muscular adults in an argument that just got physical. Instead, the dad said something like "I'm sorry my daughter touched you with her foot, and I understand it made you angry, but I've addressed it. She's three." Then he got off the subway.

This level of restraint in the face of almost unprovoked and certainly disproportionate aggression was incredible to witness. I thought to myself what a wonderful father and role model. Now, his three year old probably didn't understand what was playing out, but he certainly showed her that smashing someone's face in wasn't the way to solve a dispute.

I grew up in Liverpool obviously, not New York, and even as someone who was not a fighter I understood that you can't sit there and take everything without retaliation. I have no doubt if it had got even more physical or if either of the kids had been hurt it could have escalated differently, but I was proud of him in that moment and made sure I said it out loud.

Easier said than done but whenever with a partner or kids - deescalate no matter what.

There's always another time.

 

[Eidean]

It absolutely is.

"I felt threatened" isn't carte blanche to attack someone, mate.

That's as good a case study as any for how police shouldn't escalate.

[Edit] Here's an example;

Senior Bristol officer sacked for punching two women

Tola Munro has a distinguished career tackling violence against women and girls.

www.bbc.co.uk

• Ms Jones said he has police "experience and training" to "rise above provocation" and must take "full responsibility for his conduct".

In other words, he can't slap people around because he says he felt threatened by words.



Indeed, and that happened directly as a consequence of that officer/dog attack. The guy tries to help release the dog bite.



No correlation whatsoever. Shouty words>walking away is clearly not in the ball park of viciously attacking multiple police.

If they started wading punches in/breaking noses/were attacking that dog handler, then absolutely - all bets are off and have the dog go for the throat.

Didn’t say she was threatened by words. Police, Armed Forces etc can be proactive & reactive in both self-defence. It that officer fully believed she was in danger, she has the right to defend herself. Her argument will be, they refused several times, aggressive & during a time where several police forces have been getting attacked.

That will be for her to explain infront of a committee & she’ll have a far easier time doing that than the 2nd officer with the baton.

There absolutely is a correlation between the 2nd officer (not the dog handler) & the officer in Manchester, it all comes down to the point of controlled aggression.

2nd Police officer - currently dealing with someone resisting arrest, however at that point where there’s several officers over him there’s no requirement for him to use his baton. His argument will be he was still resisting arrest. He’ll have to argue that pretty well.

Fire Arms Officer - is trained to a far higher standard than the normal Bobby especially in arrests. He had every single right to fight back & use a weapon system (which he did). When that lad was in the prone position and didn’t pose a threat, he was wrong to boot the lad in the head.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Didn’t say she was threatened by words. Police, Armed Forces etc can be proactive & reactive in both self-defence. It that officer fully believed she was in danger, she has the right to defend herself. Her argument will be, they refused several times, aggressive & during a time where several police forces have been getting attacked.

That will be for her to explain infront of a committee & she’ll have a far easier time doing that than the 2nd officer with the baton.

There absolutely is a correlation between the 2nd officer (not the dog handler) & the officer in Manchester, it all comes down to the point of controlled aggression.

2nd Police officer - currently dealing with someone resisting arrest, however at that point where there’s several officers over him there’s no requirement for him to use his baton. His argument will be he was still resisting arrest. He’ll have to argue that pretty well.

Fire Arms Officer - is trained to a far higher standard than the normal Bobby especially in arrests. He had every single right to fight back & use a weapon system (which he did). When that lad was in the prone position and didn’t pose a threat, he was wrong to boot the lad in the head.

Turns out it's a man mate, not a woman.

Headline is that officer lost their head and escalated the situation. A Physical attack is never excused as a response towards words. Especially when it's the police.

 

[Ferguson1878]

Easier said than done but whenever with a partner or kids - deescalate no matter what.

There's always another time.

Nothing worse than getting filled in in front of the fambo

 

[Eidean]

Turns out it's a man mate, not a woman.

Headline is that officer lost their head and escalated the situation. A Physical attack is never excused as a response towards words. Especially when it's the police.

I’ve given my response already to it not being about “words” when it comes to their justification & given my professional opinion anyway.

I’ll put money on absolutely nothing happening to the dog handler.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I’ve given my response already to it not being about “words” when it comes to their justification & given my professional opinion anyway.

I’ll put money on absolutely nothing happening to the dog handler.

If I attack a police officer, I expect a beating and court date.

If I shout a police officer, I expect a warning/arrest.

If a police officer attacked me for words, from behind - I'd be seeing my outstanding mortgage paid off from compensation.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Nothing worse than getting filled in in front of the fambo

It's not just that, it's putting them in danger.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

First fella deserves a whack. Dont go walking aggressively towards a police dog.

Second fella who has the dog set on him was walking back. Then another battered on legs while on the floor. There should be some police disciplined for that. The dog handler loses control/sets the dog (or cant control it)/escalates the situation.

The dog was simply teaching him a lesson in civility from the canine perspective.

 

[peteblue]

First fella deserves a whack. Dont go walking aggressively towards a police dog.

Second fella who has the dog set on him was walking back. Then another battered on legs while on the floor. There should be some police disciplined for that. The dog handler loses control/sets the dog (or cant control it)/escalates the situation.

I bet the one who got bit on his rear end will be a bit wary of police dogs in the future….

 

[Eidean]

If I attack a police officer, I expect a beating and court date.

If I shout a police officer, I expect a warning/arrest.

If a police officer attacked me for words, from behind - I'd be seeing my outstanding mortgage paid off from compensation.

Yeah again you’ve ignored everything I’ve said & continued to use “words”.

I understand your position. You fully expect Police Officers to volley your head off if you’re tasered & in the prone position unable to move.

What you expect & what the rules are to self defence is are clearly very different.