message for "indigenous Caucasian" people.

[GrandOldTeam]

I was massively under whelmed.

Policy wise, the BNP weren’t tackled.

Jack Straws reaction to Labours immigration policy (or lack of...) aiding the BNP was utterly embarrassing.

 

[Robert Jarvis]

A vote for the Greens would not have people sitting up and asking why, so hardly a protest.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Well they are a legitimate party regardless of how they perform.

The ideology of a british britain is not lost on me obviously, I don't want to see Islamic law being instilled into this country, but the way the BNP operate is like they know what they are, people know what they are, and some opinions get lost in the "your a disgusting bigot" language that is thrown against them,

He actually had a point about Islam (to which the female Islamic woman completely ignored, which makes me wonder if she would like to live in an Islamic state with no rights), but then he spoilt it by saying "If you Stay" - it's not a case of kicking everyone out. They have committed no crimes have they?

It's about careful immigration policy, and monitoring and policing if necessary those who slip under the radar.

He's a racist first and foremost, and a sensible politician last, don't forget he was educated at Cambridge, so he's not a stupid man, he just doesn't put himself or his party in the right light.[/QUOTE]

Sort of like, Hitler was a nice man, he just overdid the publicity thing

But of course, we darkies are no longer oppressed so the BNP shouldn't really worry us.

Personally, I'm more than happy to have a debate on this issue, just wanted to get my dig in first.

I'll behave (as best I can) from now on

It's not a debate when it's about one set of debaters on the offence and the other on the defence.

I will put my hand up and say that I am not a supporter of the BNP, I think their policies are disgraceful and lack a certain aspect of reality. I don't think I belong in this country because 17,000 years ago my ancestor was born.

That kind of [Poor language removed] is bollocks. And one of the many foolish things Nick Griffin says and because of the foolish stuff he does say the odd oasis of sense will be forever masked by his rhetoric.

Anybody who is born in this country is a British citizen, anybody who applies for British Citizenship successfully is a British citizen, and it's those citizens who deserve to get any rights over any asylym seeker or border jumper (and those who have expired visas),

I don't agree that anybody in the EU should have rights in this country because they are not citizens, Maggie Thatcher didn't want to lose the sovereignty of this nation but nobody called the Tory government racist or nationalist - but that is what she was and the next government is likely to be Conservative.

Now I don't think that as a nation we should turn our back on those seeking reguge in our nation, we help people because we are an advanced country with a strong heart and in comparison to many other nations, we have good systems. Great education, healthcare, transport links.

But...

I don't believe that should mean that we should have the piss taken out of us, which is what happens. We are a soft touch. It's easy to get into this country. It's harder to get in some nightclubs to be honest.

Not sure if I'm getting off the point of the thread, but we have issues with soft immigration laws, it's not racism, it's about sustaining a nation and taking care of all it's citizens before it worries about other countries citizens.

 

[gordonjblair]

Unfortunately, that is the nature of a democracy. You get to vote for whomever you want regardless of your reasons. If you're worried about non-interested or persons naive of the issues voting, educate them. Get out and explain why their vote matters and why they should understand who they are voting for. Plenty of people here vote on one issue - abortion, gun control, taxes etc...

Don't know what the voting rate in England is but it's pretty poor here - I think less than 50%. Look at what happened here last year. Obama got a lot of votes (and I mean a lot) from people who didn't know what the issues were or what Obama really wanted to do policy wise, they just knew a vote for Obama was not a vote for another presumed 4 years of Bush policy. Does that make their votes less worthy?

Sadly, most people are naive to the actual issues or simply don't care. Look at Chicago - it has been a Democratic stronghold for years and Mayor Daley runs virtually unopposed. Why? People are less interested about corruption and good governmental management than they are about having their trash picked up daily and the trains and buses running on time. Chicago is pretty poorly managed but my trash is always collected, my train runs downtown without hassle and the parks and greenspaces are pretty solid. Can I live with the corruption and BS in exchange for not having those worries, apparently most of Chicago can.

but there you go... if you wring your hands and tell people they should be more informed, they'll say "yeah, whatever, doesn't really matter though, does it?"

If you threaten to take away their vote however, you just watch them hit the books. The thought of taking away voting rights is a far more fundamental and visceral concept than telling someone that their decision making may be flawed, and will get a far greater response (although I thought it would get more of a kicking on here than it did)

 

[harry]

The BNP have some good ideas unfortunatly they also have some stupid ones, on the other hand labour are the same but on the other side of the scale.

Hopefully the conservatives can be the party in the middle. (can't see it tho).

 

[GhostOfDixie]

The BNP have some good ideas unfortunatly they also have some stupid ones, on the other hand labour are the same but on the other side of the scale.

Hopefully the conservatives can be the party in the middle. (can't see it tho).

Expect a backlash mate.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Expect a backlash mate.

Not necessarily, he has just echoed what others have already said in here - just a bit more blunt. Like you said Griffin made a good point about islam and said he was a 'sensible' politician...

Just a quick reminder to everyone though, keep it civil. Threads of this nature have a tendency to get out of hand.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Not necessarily, he has just echoed what others have already said in here - just a bit more blunt.

Just a quick reminder to everyone though, keep it civil. Threads of this nature have a tendency to get out of hand.

To be honest mate I think it is necessary. Its very difficult for anyone in society to perhaps echo some slightly right wing opinions without being labelled as racist.

I know I have and it's hurtful.

It's like we have two pots. The safe PC pot and the vile disgusting racist pot.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

To be honest mate I think it is necessary. Its very difficult for anyone in society to perhaps echo some slightly right wing opinions without being labelled as racist.

I know I have and it's hurtful.

It's like we have two pots. The safe PC pot and the vile disgusting racist pot.

Why is exactly why we have, as you described, a 'soft immigration policy'.

Which is exactly why main parties are reluctant to tackle immigration and, as mentioned on Question Time, aiding the BNP by prompting people in the public who aren't actually racist to vote for them. In other words, a lot of people who are primarily concerned about immigration have very little alternative.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Why is exactly why we have, as you described, a 'soft immigration policy'.

Which is exactly why main parties are reluctant to tackle immigration and, as mentioned on Question Time, aiding the BNP by prompting people in the public who aren't actually racist to vote for them. A lot of people who are primarily concerned about immigration have very little alternative.

Well surely it's up to the men and women voted in to sustain this country?

Labour party saying that they expected 75,000 approx to arrive, whereas 750,000 actually arrived. I'm not sure how many people emigrated out of the UK, or what the actual unemployment figures are, but I know that many catering jobs up and down the country are staffed by eastern europeans.

I actually don't understand what you said at the start of your post, are you asking why we have a soft immigration policy?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Well surely it's up to the men and women voted in to sustain this country?

Labour party saying that they expected 75,000 approx to arrive, whereas 750,000 actually arrived. I'm not sure how many people emigrated out of the UK, or what the actual unemployment figures are, but I know that many catering jobs up and down the country are staffed by eastern europeans.

No one knows, we grant 2 million visas a year but no one could tell you how many of those actually leave.

I actually don't understand what you said at the start of your post, are you asking why we have a soft immigration policy?

You said we have a soft immigration policy, I agree, thinking its because, again, as you said;

Its very difficult for anyone in society to perhaps echo some slightly right wing opinions without being labelled as racist.

The main parties are reluctant to tackle immigration for that very reason. Jack Straw was asked that very question last night and failed miserably in his answer.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

No one knows, we grant 2 million visas a year but no one could tell you how many of those actually leave.



You said we have a soft immigration policy, I agree, thinking its because, again, as you said;



The main parties are reluctant to tackle immigration for that very reason.

Yep, it's terrible though.

Nick Griffin is a clown, there is no doubt. But he made a point about Islamic law being completely disrespectful to humanity. Females have basically no rights whatsoever, do Muslims want to inject Islamic law into our society? Well they have to want that, because they are very loyal to the Qur'an.

And that Islamic woman last night (who was a member of the Conservative party) was basically ignoring the fact that Islamic women have no rights, and that Griffin was actually sticking up for feminists.

 

[ChicagoToffee]

but there you go... if you wring your hands and tell people they should be more informed, they'll say "yeah, whatever, doesn't really matter though, does it?"

If you threaten to take away their vote however, you just watch them hit the books. The thought of taking away voting rights is a far more fundamental and visceral concept than telling someone that their decision making may be flawed, and will get a far greater response (although I thought it would get more of a kicking on here than it did)

How can you take away voting rights and still have a democracy?

No need to pound away at you - you raise an interesting point. But if you're taking away voting rights, do you think those that get disenfranchised are really going to care? Probably not. You might get some that choose to educate themselves but in the end, you'll end up with the same voters you always do voting for the same poor ballot of ne'er do-wells and professional politicians whose only real interest is re-election.

May not be perfect but everyone who is eligible (+ 18 years old and non-felons in the US) should be free to cast their stone as they please (or don't please).

Is not voting a sign of apathy or a statement that none of the politicians running are suitable? Catch 22 if you will.

 

[Nebbiolo]

Yep, it's terrible though.

Nick Griffin is a clown, there is no doubt. But he made a point about Islamic law being completely disrespectful to humanity. Females have basically no rights whatsoever, do Muslims want to inject Islamic law into our society? Well they have to want that, because they are very loyal to the Qur'an.

And that Islamic woman last night (who was a member of the Conservative party) was basically ignoring the fact that Islamic women have no rights, and that Griffin was actually sticking up for feminists.

That's not true, Nick. Griffin is a fascist and a racist. He doesn't give a stuff about Muslim women. He's using them as a tool to breed more hatred to muslims. Of course there are issues regarding the status of women in Islam which need urgent political attention. But we don't need the BNP to tell us that. We just need the mainstream parties to develop the will to address any problems.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

That's not true, Nick. Griffin is a fascist and a racist. He doesn't give a stuff about Muslim women. He's using them as a tool to breed more hatred to muslims. Of course there are issues regarding the status of women in Islam which need urgent political attention. But we don't need the BNP to tell us that. We just need the mainstream parties to develop the will to address any problems.

Its a fair comment.