message for "indigenous Caucasian" people.

[stevedeblue]

maybe more because im a lazy bastardo is the reason why i dont vote for any of them, but if i could leave you this one a local lad comes over to live in the local village and gets a lo paying job in the the local factory nice lad and all the rest of it, he then sends over for his wife and two kids lovely family oh and his wife is pregnant, so the school have to find money to teach the kids English ( new teacher) the wife is using the local services to help her through her pregnancy and birth and then the local council have to find them bigger accommodation as the small flat is no longer any use for them and all at a huge cost to the tax payer no doubt that story is being played out all over the country were does the money come from.By the way my wife is Russian from the country of latvia.

Sorry about the addition I felt I needed to try and put up a defence.

 

[Muggins]

maybe more because im a lazy bastardo is the reason why i dont vote for any of them, but if i could leave you this one a local lad comes over to live in the local village and gets a lo paying job in the the local factory nice lad and all the rest of it, he then sends over for his wife and two kids lovely family oh and his wife is pregnant, so the school have to find money to teach the kids English ( new teacher) the wife is using the local services to help her through her pregnancy and birth and then the local council have to find them bigger accommodation as the small flat is no longer any use for them and all at a huge cost to the tax payer no doubt that story is being played out all over the country were does the money come from.By the way my wife is Russian from the country of latvia.

In response to the question "where does the money come from?"

The answer is, it is actually made up out of thin air, using an advanced process as stated in 'Modern Money Mechanics' called 'Fractional Banking'.

Only 3% of currency is actually in physical form (circulation and bank vaults) The rest is all digital.

Banks are only required to keep a small fraction of the amount they lend out even though on screen it still shows all the cash as still being there. (Look on your bank notes - its an I owe you courtesy of the Bank Of England)

This is how the money supply is increased...Google it. You'll realise there is a complex web that extends far beyond the reach of our government and many other countries governments.

So if you are miffed off that there is a massive barrel of £1 coins taxed off us that politicians and immigrants are dipping their hands in, don't be. They'd love you to believe that is true, just to make you angry.

Politicians are put in place to make sure everything stays the same.

Thats why you will never be Prime Minister Steve De Blue, you would probably change things and the big bankers can't have that....

I feel sorry for everyone involved in "question time", they just don't have clue....

 

[NeoNaoNeo]

Muggins has defo. seen zeitgeist.

YOURE ALL SHEEP OF THE IMF, ONLY ALEX JONES AND ZeitGeist kno\/\/ \/\/hats reALLy going on

bt\/\/, the real reason my \/\/s are strange is because they stand for the \/\/ in N\/\/O =O

 

[stevedeblue]

there are stranges forces at play here, its probably the same people who invent Bin Ladenb)b)

 

[Muggins]

Muggins has defo. seen zeitgeist.

YOURE ALL SHEEP OF THE IMF, ONLY ALEX JONES AND ZeitGeist kno\/\/ \/\/hats reALLy going on

bt\/\/, the real reason my \/\/s are strange is because they stand for the \/\/ in N\/\/O =O

Lads the truth is shocking....If everyone in the world watched the Zeitgeist today....2moro there would be a different world. Everton might even win on Sunday!!!

Bill Hicks is my inspiration....lolol...

But i only ever lose sleep over Everton!!!
coyb!!!

 

[Nebbiolo]

He's Romanian, and she's Greek. Get 'em outta ere!!

 

[monty]

Fine by you, not by me. Isn't it a rather anti liberal idea that ones will should be imposed upon another? b)

How is that Bruce, surely that comment would only be valid if the voting paper had no method of abstaining. Being obliged to vote once every four or five years is a very small price to play for democracy:huh:

 

[Bruce Wayne]

How is that Bruce, surely that comment would only be valid if the voting paper had no method of abstaining. Being obliged to vote once every four or five years is a very small price to play for democracy:huh:

I don't think that's enough Monts. Voting is essentially you imparting a choice on how you receive services. In the commercial world I can impart that choice each time I buy something, once every four years doesn't cut it.

 

[gordonjblair]

I don't think that's enough Monts. Voting is essentially you imparting a choice on how you receive services. In the commercial world I can impart that choice each time I buy something, once every four years doesn't cut it.

some things you just can't leave to market forces though, Bruce, or you lose the benefit of coordinated effort and they'd become to inefficient.

You may laugh and giggle at this, but the NHS and critical care, is a case in point. The key to providing this care in a reasonably cost effective manner is being able to forecast and budget with some degree of confidence. If you're relying on some kind of 'pay as you go' system, things can get a little erratic. You'll start to find the 'high margin' areas of provision will be over provided, and 'low margin' care will be hard to come by. You'll also find that those on low wages will start receiving sub or low standard care.

One of the key problems with the way the system is currently run is that the NHS is trying too hard to behave like a collection of private companies (the PCTs), by carving up the NHS this way, you lose many of the benefits of a central, cohesive, efficient organisation.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

In all of the complex systems I've studied organisation comes best from the bottom upwards rather than the top downwards.

The NHS is often provided as a bastian but I wonder really how effective it is. I compare the cost of the NHS (and healthcare industry as a whole) with other industries and its not a good comparison. In nearly all industries costs go down over time, from food to information technology, yet in healthcare the costs are rising and showing no sign of decline. Something is seriously rotten in Denmark and it would appear neither the social model provided in Europe or the insurance model provided in America work.

I came across this book via The Undercover Economist blog on the FT and it makes interesting reading.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cure-Capita...TF8&coliid=I3KE38OWUDWF27&colid=2AHLYUJSJHZ29

 

[gordonjblair]

there's always going to be a problem when what really needs to be considered as on 'overhead' (healthcare, education) gets treated as a commodity or consumer product. The market shouln't really be an arbiter as to what treatments should be available, otherwise you'll struggle to get any treatment where the margins are low and success rate or risk is marginal.

Of course costs are rising, notwithstanding major pharma having the world by the short and curlies, the treatment available now is light years ahead of 20 / 30 years ago. MRI scanners and the like cost money. That's the price of progress.

It must be noted however, that Healthcare spending as a percentage of total spend has risen from 11.3% to 17.3% over the last 30 years - this rise has been offset by a reduction in defence spending (almost point for point). Spending on healthcare as a %age of GDP has risen from 5-7% over the same period. This isn't what I'd term as rampant, out of control profligacy.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Of course costs are rising, notwithstanding major pharma having the world by the short and curlies, the treatment available now is light years ahead of 20 / 30 years ago. MRI scanners and the like cost money. That's the price of progress.

Why though? Food has become cheaper despite agricultural yields advancing tremendously since the Green Revolution. IT has become significantly cheaper despite performance improving enormously. Where any product is essentially an information product it nearly always reduces in price to the extent where it becomes a commodity.

You mention that the pharma companies have healthcare by the short and curlies, and this is precisely why. There is no competition. The healthcare organisations don't care because customers have no choice, they simply have to pay. So costs inevitbaly rise. You're seeing changes on the production side of things because emerging economies are knocking off patented products so rapidly. As mentioned above, the IP is becoming commoditized.

The market shouln't really be an arbiter as to what treatments should be available, otherwise you'll struggle to get any treatment where the margins are low and success rate or risk is marginal.

We have NICE telling us what treatments should or should not be used at the moment. Is that any better? It's not the customer that is in control of their own healthcare, it's the government or quangos that control the NHS. That simply can't be right. I mentioned earlier about innovation and the lack of diversity in a workforce strangling this because it encourages groupthink. It's just the same in a monopoly situation, and this is the reason they're so bad. It doesn't matter if its a public monopoly (as in the case of the NHS or our schools) or a private one.

 

[gordonjblair]

Why though? Food has become cheaper despite agricultural yields advancing tremendously since the Green Revolution. IT has become significantly cheaper despite performance improving enormously. Where any product is essentially an information product it nearly always reduces in price to the extent where it becomes a commodity.

Because with consumer products, the scale of production allows for economies, we're a long way from having an MRI on every desktop.. this is specialist kit, and it's not replacing anything, it's an entirely new advance so is always going to bump up spending.

You mention that the pharma companies have healthcare by the short and curlies, and this is precisely why. There is no competition. The healthcare organisations don't care because customers have no choice, they simply have to pay. So costs inevitbaly rise. You're seeing changes on the production side of things because emerging economies are knocking off patented products so rapidly. As mentioned above, the IP is becoming commoditized.

so pharma isn't making a killing in the US where patients can walk into their doctors and choose which brand? I couldn't believe the first time I watched US tv and saw the ad breaks filled with pharma commercials. The reason that big pharma has the world by the short and curlies is that this part of the healthcare 'chain' is the bit that is almost exclusively private. They're the ones investing the R+D cash and so they get to dictate the price to the end user (us). This is a window as to what would happen in a fully free market healthcare system - it's competitive alright, survival of the fittest will rule : the wealthy will thrive and the weak and poor will die (sadly, in this case quite literally).

Imagine how much cheaper healthcare could be if governments could fund the level of R&D spending thrown about by big pharma, the return would be there in cheaper med costs (there's clearly a margin as GSK and the like are still in rude health) the pain would be felt in the 10 year pipeline time, but it would seriously be worth it.

We have NICE telling us what treatments should or should not be used at the moment. Is that any better? It's not the customer that is in control of their own healthcare, it's the government or quangos that control the NHS. That simply can't be right. I mentioned earlier about innovation and the lack of diversity in a workforce strangling this because it encourages groupthink. It's just the same in a monopoly situation, and this is the reason they're so bad. It doesn't matter if its a public monopoly (as in the case of the NHS or our schools) or a private one.

There needs to be some objective body because the money has to be spent effectively, which requires some very hard, dispassionate decisions to be made, NICE is no worse than any other solution on the table, and it's better than most.

The customer still has choice, if they have cash, but the service available to those without the funds to have that choice has to be as robust as possible and as such has to be immune to the vagaries and capricious nature of market forces.

 

[chicoazul]

Ever sat down and watched US commercials?

It's shocking, at least half of them are for pharmaceutical products. No wonder there is massive resistance to socialized healthcare.

Basic healthcare should be the responsibility of the state.


Posted via Mobile Device

 

[ChicagoToffee]

Ever sat down and watched US commercials?

It's shocking, at least half of them are for pharmaceutical products. No wonder there is massive resistance to socialized healthcare.

Basic healthcare should be the responsibility of the state.


Posted via Mobile Device

That's not it. It's not about the profit end for regular Joe. He wants to be able to walk into his MD with the "I think my leg's gone twitchy and I saw a commercial for this drug for Restless Leg Syndrome. After seeing the ad, I'm convinced I have RLS and the only thing that will help is the drug I saw on TV last night so I need a prescription."

Americans are engrained to expect instant gratification and they're willing to pay for it is they can get what they want right away. Nationalized health care scares Americans because they think they'll lost the convenience of health care, the ability to choose their MD and their drugs and get both when they want them and that if healthcare is nationalized, it will not be flexible to accomodate individual needs. Throw in some fearmongering that there will be "Death Panels" that will decide when people should be treated or left to die and that nationalized healthcare will result in overall worse care because resources have to be spread about and MD's will get worse because those bright enough to do it will have no financial incentive to go through 8 more years of school.

All pharma commercials do is get more people to the MD who've self diagnosed themselves demanding certain pills.