Martinez Out: Post Stoke poll

[KevMirallas]

But he doesn't just play the exact same way all the time, does he? It has certainly looked that way this season, I will admit, as a lack of confidence and form has just created a dire vaccum of awfulness, but when the players were up and about last season he mixed it up regularly.

We went to Arsenal, set up to dominate the game and did so. Then they came here and he threw Lukaku wide, Naismith as a false nine and tore them to shreds on the counter. The same when United came, he let them have all the ball and we took them apart on the counter. His core values won't change - he isn't suddenly going to sign Andy Carroll and hoof balls to his head all season. But of course he will make adjustments to suit each game, and he has done. He has made lots of mistakes this season, but trying to claim he refuses to change ever is disingenuous and glosses over the actual problems.

 

[Stanley Parker]

He's off his tits.

The best managers 'find a way to win' as ultimately winning is what matters. Mourinho is currently the most decorated manager in the English game and when he needs to win a big game, he's not afraid to do what he needs to do in terms of keeping it tight, irrespective of his hugely talented squad. Ferguson was the same.

However, Martinez simply refuses to accept the fact that there's times when you need to adjust your style, be pragmatic and ensure the win. This obstinacy was his undoing at Wigan and it'll be the same here.

Roberto's undoing at Wigan was having to make a 22% cut in the wage bill, as instructed by the Chairman, just as rival clubs were increasing theirs.

After the defeat at Hull, Roberto accepted the need to tighten the defence, and we went on a run conceding very few goals.

People are complaining that he plays with two defensive MFs, but he even introduced a third during this spell.

 

[davek]

But he doesn't just play the exact same way all the time, does he? It has certainly looked that way this season, I will admit, as a lack of confidence and form has just created a dire vaccum of awfulness, but when the players were up and about last season he mixed it up regularly.

We went to Arsenal, set up to dominate the game and did so. Then they came here and he threw Lukaku wide, Naismith as a false nine and tore them to shreds on the counter. The same when United came, he let them have all the ball and we took them apart on the counter. His core values won't change - he isn't suddenly going to sign Andy Carroll and hoof balls to his head all season. But of course he will make adjustments to suit each game, and he has done. He has made lots of mistakes this season, but trying to claim he refuses to change ever is disingenuous and glosses over the actual problems.

They're not listening mate. These are the same handful of posters who were calling for his head when we were winning 21 games last season.

They're desperately turning over every stone looking for scraps of information that back up their crackpot theories, they dont want reasoned debate.

The good news is they'll pipe down soon and retreat into their cave to nurture their hate in readiness for the next anticipated 'crisis'.

It must be a horrendous world to live in that one.

 

[Ashtonian]

But he doesn't just play the exact same way all the time, does he? It has certainly looked that way this season, I will admit, as a lack of confidence and form has just created a dire vaccum of awfulness, but when the players were up and about last season he mixed it up regularly.

We went to Arsenal, set up to dominate the game and did so. Then they came here and he threw Lukaku wide, Naismith as a false nine and tore them to shreds on the counter. The same when United came, he let them have all the ball and we took them apart on the counter. His core values won't change - he isn't suddenly going to sign Andy Carroll and hoof balls to his head all season. But of course he will make adjustments to suit each game, and he has done. He has made lots of mistakes this season, but trying to claim he refuses to change ever is disingenuous and glosses over the actual problems.

the last season this season thing seems to be completely unrelated though. Last season he did change things at times and looked a great manager.

I think myself and others have an issue this year with he isnt changing anything. the team and tactics vs newcastle will be the same as stoke and leiscter in most places and if we win then its a win for that tactic, the same that lost vs stoke. Its not like we are setting up one way and it not working, its the only we are setting up thats not working and not changing which means the lack of winning isnt changing at the same time.

If that makes sense.

 

[KevMirallas]

the last season this season thing seems to be completely unrelated though. Last season he did change things at times and looked a great manager.

I think myself and others have an issue this year with he isnt changing anything. the team and tactics vs newcastle will be the same as stoke and leiscter in most places and if we win then its a win for that tactic, the same that lost vs stoke. Its not like we are setting up one way and it not working, its the only we are setting up thats not working and not changing which means the lack of winning isnt changing at the same time.

If that makes sense.

It does make sense mate, and in some ways I agree with what you're saying. By no means is he doing a stellar job at present, but I think he's done good things and bad things this season after a season of almost unprecedented success last time out. In that sense it is related, because he is clearly capable. Plenty of things have gone against us this season which has kinda snowballed into this current situation. Lots of that hasn't been his fault. Some of it has.

I spose all I'm trying to say is the cause of the problem has been oversimplified. It's not just because Martinez is stubborn. It's not just because Lukaku can't hold up the play. It's not just because Howard is rubbish. It's been lots of things, and I don't think ditching a very promising young manager, whose long term vision has always been key, is the solution.

 

[bicycleheader]

He's off his tits.

The best managers 'find a way to win' as ultimately winning is what matters. Mourinho is currently the most decorated manager in the English game and when he needs to win a big game, he's not afraid to do what he needs to do in terms of keeping it tight, irrespective of his hugely talented squad. Ferguson was the same.

However, Martinez simply refuses to accept the fact that there's times when you need to adjust your style, be pragmatic and ensure the win. This obstinacy was his undoing at Wigan and it'll be the same here.

listen...we had a "find a way to win(or more accurately, not lose)" manager for a decade. Now we have a manager with a different outlook. I don´t see the point in criticising him for not being like Mourinho, when quite clearly he and many other managers in the game don´t see football like Mourinho. Mourinho only cares about winning, which is fair enough but not for everybody. For myself it´s not all about winning, and many supporters I know think the same.

Don´t get me wrong, I would love an Europa League win right now where we parked the bus for the remainder of the tournament and squeezed out 1-0 wins, but as a general policy for the style of football at the club...no thanks. I´d prefer see what the current boss can do given time, or failing that a similarly minded manager as his replacement.

He is certainly not "off his tits". What an odd way to think about views on football which are very common.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

Except we arent winning games, and still continue to lose games through the same reasons, same tactics and lack of change. Its not doom mongering to believe we can actually fall into worst case scenario because we have spent most of the season so far doing so.

Perfectly explains the reasoning behind how a lot of us feel...

Really wish I had a bit of Davek's confidence TBH but I genuinely can't see where it comes from. RM (look, I never said BOBSY, I'm learnin') looked dreadful coming off the pitch at STOKE, and - deep down - I thought 'right, this should be enough to rattle him into a MASSIVE re-think'. Then the HENRY WINTER interview spills, as do a load of collective sighs, because he's blindly gonna carry on in the same vein...

Genuinely hoping I'm wrong like...

 

[MikeH72]

Martinez likes to see passing; other managers like to see balls hoofed.

Nothing to see here.

Yeah because that's it, the only 2 ways you can possibly play. Who'd want to play that agricultural hoofball anyway, and be like, say, Real Madrid or someone? Pffft

 

[davek]

Yeah because that's it, the only 2 ways you can possibly play. Who'd want to play that agricultural hoofball anyway, and be like, say, Real Madrid or someone? Pffft

Real Madrid?

 

[MikeH72]

Cheers bobby

You've gone beyond expectations. You've taken a steady top 7 team and turned them into a bottom half team in the space of a couple of months

And seeing as you love your stats, we congratulate you on keeping your "average" points total for PL intact, don't let the blip last season dent your confidence. As we all know, getting 36 points is tough, especially for a team full of experienced international footballers

Can you please tell us more about this theory of every pass as a story, it sounds intriguing as to how 20 useless passes around the pitch only to end up back at howard who hoofs it forward for us to then loose possession as a story.

He didn't say this did he? Please tell me he didn't

The bloke is an utter embarrassment. None of us can laugh at the nonsense Brenda spouts while we have this [Poor language removed] nutter in charge

 

[MikeH72]

Real Madrid?

Do they play hoofball or pointless waste-of-time tiki taka? Because according to you, they're the only 2 ways anyone can possibly play

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

I heard that he snorts a line off Osman's cock before every interview.

 

[davek]

Do they play hoofball or pointless waste-of-time tiki taka? Because according to you, they're the only 2 ways anyone can possibly play

Wtf?

This is Real Madrid, the richest club on the planet. Are you seriously comparing the potential playing styles and possibilities of a club that spends £17M net over two seasons with that juggernaut?

 

[MikeH72]

Wtf?

This is Real Madrid, the richest club on the planet. Are you seriously comparing the potential playing styles and possibilities of a club that spends £17M net over two seasons with that juggernaut?

So only mega rich clubs can play the style that they play? So it's nothing like us trying to play like Barcelona with Steven Naismith and Gareth Barry in the team? Exactly my point. PLAY TO YOUR STRENGTHS

 

[Khalekan]

the last season this season thing seems to be completely unrelated though. Last season he did change things at times and looked a great manager.

I think myself and others have an issue this year with he isnt changing anything. the team and tactics vs newcastle will be the same as stoke and leiscter in most places and if we win then its a win for that tactic, the same that lost vs stoke. Its not like we are setting up one way and it not working, its the only we are setting up thats not working and not changing which means the lack of winning isnt changing at the same time.

If that makes sense.

I think we have reached the stage where he couldn't change tactics niw even if he wanted to.

Bobby likes to play chess on grass and to use a chess analogy he has lost control of the board.

The Barcodes will do what every other team has now learned to do against him.

Even Wenger at the Emirates.

Just let Eveton have the ball. Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves.

Sit back or press high up and just await the inevitable mistakes.

The key is scoring first.

And the last thing whoever is managing Barcodes these days will expect is an arriel bombardment.

Stick Kone up front with Rom and get the ball into them early and from all angles.