Martinez Out: Post Stoke poll

[MACCA75]

We were never near the 'top table'. FACT.

6th/7th average finishes gets you a patronising pat on the head from the media and nothing else.

We are an also ran club...or 'best of the rest', if you prefer.

Best season we had was last year when we piled up 'top table club' levels of points and 'top table club' standards of football, and still missed out.

It's a cruel reality, but there it is in all its ugliness.

I would agree with you, we were sat on the floor taking the scraps from the top table. For that to change would require a new owner as you know. Roberto won't get us there.

 

[Ashtonian]

You've persisted with these doomed predictions for about 6 weeks or more and not once have we fallen into the bottom 3 or even come close, every few days there seems to be another "what if.....", why not just let it play out instead of imagining future scenarios were we're in the bottom 3?

You just look like a jabbering wreck, like one of those looney conspiracy theorists telling everyone were all going to die.

Not really, vault me. I was saying we were in relegation form since december time, and we have won one game in all of that time! Its like the barry thing all over again, i didnt want him to sign, everyone says im wrong then over time more and more people come to the same conclusion. nothing to celebrate but simply i stand by what i think.

but, and i cant stress this enough, i am a 'doom merchant' as you say because we arent winning games. people who are optimistic are saying 'beat newcastle and we will be fine', 'get 10 points and we are fine', '3 wins and we are fine' etc. Except we arent winning games, and still continue to lose games through the same reasons, same tactics and lack of change. Its not doom mongering to believe we can actually fall into worst case scenario because we have spent most of the season so far doing so.

As i have said before, if the teams below us had turned two draws into wins since august, with no impact on our games at all then the conversation right now would be far different, ifs and buts but 6 points clear is not a safe margin on the basis of you assume the teams below us cannot over take us.

 

[davek]

I would agree with you, we were sat on the floor taking the scraps from the top table. For that to change would require a new owner as you know. Roberto won't get us there.

No one will get us there. That's why any clamour for change lacks credibility.

A manager of this club needs to just steer a steady course to pacify the owners. That hasn't happened this season and so it's up to them to determine whether the man they feted a few short months ago after a great season should go after a rocky one where we fell into the bottom half of the table.

Personally I think they'd be mad to take it. Even the cost of dismissal for one regime and the cost of employing another one is off-putting enough. You're talking the thick end of £10M for that. That's besides the fact that it's a second season learning curve and that Kenwright knows from experience that this can happen to a manager.

 

[daz4matty]

It's almost over.

You're a rebel without a cause.

Almost over great news where is he going?

 

[Ashtonian]

No one will get us there. That's why any clamour for change lacks credibility.

A manager of this club needs to just steer a steady course to pacify the owners. That hasn't happened this season and so it's up to them to determine whether the man they feted a few short months ago after a great season should go after a rocky one where we fell into the bottom half of the table.

Personally I think they'd be mad to take it. Even the cost of dismissal for one regime and the cost of employing another one is off-putting enough. You're talking the thick end of £10M for that. That's besides the fact that it's a second season learning curve and that Kenwright knows from experience that this can happen to a manager.

I disagree with you but for completely different reasons because martinez can take us to the top table, so to speak.

To have a squad capable of being up there you need money, and for a club like everton we need to generate money, which we do through player sales. But a system like robertos which brings the youth through and integrates them works quite effctively if the manager is doing his job. imagine selling baines for 20 million this summer and replacing him with garbutt and then a new winger who is better than piennar. then next year selling coleman but replacing him with a top centre half and browning for arguments sake. The team gets both the integrated players moving and generates money to invest in the team, so over a few years the first team could possibly be a hell of a lot better than it is now and it has still been funded by player sales to higher clubs.

This is why i want roberto to succeed, i want this system at the club, i want to see the young players come through and i certainly rate his signings like lukaku and besic over previous manager signings. It can work but martinez needs to be around 10 places higher in the league to do it.

 

[davek]

Almost over great news where is he going?

Chin up mate. Theres always next season.

 

[nsno-chris]

Cheers bobby

You've gone beyond expectations. You've taken a steady top 7 team and turned them into a bottom half team in the space of a couple of months

And seeing as you love your stats, we congratulate you on keeping your "average" points total for PL intact, don't let the blip last season dent your confidence. As we all know, getting 36 points is tough, especially for a team full of experienced international footballers

Can you please tell us more about this theory of every pass as a story, it sounds intriguing as to how 20 useless passes around the pitch only to end up back at howard who hoofs it forward for us to then loose possession as a story.

 

[Boss_Blue]

then next year selling coleman

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

 

[davek]

I disagree with you but for completely different reasons because martinez can take us to the top table, so to speak.

To have a squad capable of being up there you need money, and for a club like everton we need to generate money, which we do through player sales. But a system like robertos which brings the youth through and integrates them works quite effctively if the manager is doing his job. imagine selling baines for 20 million this summer and replacing him with garbutt and then a new winger who is better than piennar. then next year selling coleman but replacing him with a top centre half and browning for arguments sake. The team gets both the integrated players moving and generates money to invest in the team, so over a few years the first team could possibly be a hell of a lot better than it is now and it has still been funded by player sales to higher clubs.

This is why i want roberto to succeed, i want this system at the club, i want to see the young players come through and i certainly rate his signings like lukaku and besic over previous manager signings. It can work but martinez needs to be around 10 places higher in the league to do it.

The only realistic way to get amongst the elite clubs for CL places and trophies is to spend hundreds of millions. It's a myth you can do it by a policy of selling and spending wisely/bringing youth through.

An Everton a manager's job under Kenwright is to protect the tv revenue money and ensure it's never in peril. The only thing to be determined is whether you want a manager who can play entertaining football within that financial straitjacket or whether you just go for a meat and potatoes type of approach with a manager like Moyes.

 

[davek]

Cheers bobby

You've gone beyond expectations. You've taken a steady top 7 team and turned them into a bottom half team in the space of a couple of months

And seeing as you love your stats, we congratulate you on keeping your "average" points total for PL intact, don't let the blip last season dent your confidence. As we all know, getting 36 points is tough, especially for a team full of experienced international footballers

Can you please tell us more about this theory of every pass as a story, it sounds intriguing as to how 20 useless passes around the pitch only to end up back at howard who hoofs it forward for us to then loose possession as a story.

Martinez likes to see passing; other managers like to see balls hoofed.

Nothing to see here.

 

[nsno-chris]

There's more excitement watching 90 minutes of YouTube clips of "pong"

Ball goes left, ball goes right, ball goes left, ball goes right

Maybe he was intrigued as a kid and that's were he get his ideas from

 

[Khalekan]

other notable quotes from him;

As a manager, I have the big advantage of being able to see what went wrong, the things not working, how we can change it for the next game

He will not “park the bus” to secure results to win a trophy. “I don’t think you would win it. You will always fall short.”

I’m of a school of going to a game and enjoying a skill, a piece of talent that makes something happen, that gives you real pleasure. Winning is very, very important but you can chase that dream with good football, not just ‘finding a way’ to win.”

We don’t want to think ‘we can only fight for fifth position’. We want to go further.

But do you over-pass? “Never! I don’t think you can. You can never over-pass. Passing for the sake of it is not going to take you anywhere. There’s a reason behind every pass.” Even if sideways or backwards? “Yes, yes.” Even if back to the keeper? “As long as there’s a reason for it.” But Goodison craves more urgency. “No, no, no, yes, no. We are a very dynamic side as well. We can adapt to different opposition or different situations.

“Our philosophy is that we want to be a team that always goes out for a win, to find a way to control the game, be a dominant force, be dynamic, be flexible tactically.’’

“Yes, yes, but I’ve been down with 36 points and it’s very tough to get 36 points in this league

Blimey.

That is scary stuff.....almost messianic.

And delusional.

 

[nsno-chris]

Martinez likes to see passing; other managers like to see balls hoofed.

Nothing to see here.

Like Barcelona

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

He's off his tits.

The best managers 'find a way to win' as ultimately winning is what matters. Mourinho is currently the most decorated manager in the English game and when he needs to win a big game, he's not afraid to do what he needs to do in terms of keeping it tight, irrespective of his hugely talented squad. Ferguson was the same.

However, Martinez simply refuses to accept the fact that there's times when you need to adjust your style, be pragmatic and ensure the win. This obstinacy was his undoing at Wigan and it'll be the same here.

 

[royalblue66]

He's off his tits.

The best managers 'find a way to win' as ultimately winning is what matters. Mourinho is currently the most decorated manager in the English game and when he needs to win a big game, he's not afraid to do what he needs to do in terms of keeping it tight, irrespective of his hugely talented squad. Ferguson was the same.

However, Martinez simply refuses to accept the fact that there's times when you need to adjust your style, be pragmatic and ensure the win. This obstinacy was his undoing at Wigan and it'll be the same here.

tnis man ain't going to change,no matter what,very frightening indeed.