Martinez Out: Post Stoke poll

[davek]

I do suspect we're set for a few years back in the servants quarters alongside the likes of Sunderland and Hull rather than feeding from the scraps from the top table like we've been used to.

We were never near the 'top table'. FACT.

6th/7th average finishes gets you a patronising pat on the head from the media and nothing else.

We are an also ran club...or 'best of the rest', if you prefer.

Best season we had was last year when we piled up 'top table club' levels of points and 'top table club' standards of football, and still missed out.

It's a cruel reality, but there it is in all its ugliness.

 

[Ashtonian]

Reading snippets of an interview with him this morning there is some amazing things.

1. winning trophies is not good if it means changing your philosophy.
2. Basically he doesnt want to change philosophy and follows the Wenger way of thinking of good football over juwst outright success.
3. He wont win at all costs if it changes our style!
4. Howard has had a good season.


Now where do you begin with this? keeping the philosophy over winning trophies, well ask the businessmen at wigan if they agree with an f.a cup and relegation?! He has taken a top club down to a battle but he will keep sending the same tactics out that arent working because getting the win isnt important enough? expect to see us not win a trophy unless we are passing our way to it?

 

[davek]

Reading snippets of an interview with him this morning there is some amazing things.

1. winning trophies is not good if it means changing your philosophy.
2. Basically he doesnt want to change philosophy and follows the Wenger way of thinking of good football over juwst outright success.
3. He wont win at all costs if it changes our style!
4. Howard has had a good season.


Now where do you begin with this? keeping the philosophy over winning trophies, well ask the businessmen at wigan if they agree with an f.a cup and relegation?! He has taken a top club down to a battle but he will keep sending the same tactics out that arent working because getting the win isnt important enough? expect to see us not win a trophy unless we are passing our way to it?

Link?

 

[Boss_Blue]

keeping the philosophy over winning trophies, well ask the businessmen at wigan if they agree with an f.a cup and relegation

I get your point but you've kind of contradicted yourself in that sentence.

 

[Boss_Blue]

Link?

I read that myself last night mate - I will have a search for you.

 

[daz4matty]

Very true. But I think The biggest problem is we just pass it needlessly in our own half. Even if we did all that passing but in the opponents half we may wield some success but it's all false possesion between barry and the defenders.

You only have to look at arsenal. They dominate possesion and pass a lot but they move it quickly out of defence, and do the passing around the opp penalty area. With 1 holding midfielder!

Think us playing 2 holding doesn't help the situation either as it incourages passing deeper.

I agree we do pass needlessly in our own half too much and it actually benefits the opposition because by the time we do venture into their half they are back in position.
Martinez is so scared though,we don't put crosses in,we hardly have anyone in the box and we don't really beat our man.
No wonder the players are playing nowhere near how they can the tactics are ruining them.

 

[Ashtonian]

I get your point but you've kind of contradicted yourself in that sentence.

How did i mate?

Just mean that playing his philosophy got him a trophy in the cup but also got them relegated by not being able to win enough games to stay up. So instead of making sure that they stayed up (going for the win) he refused to change and despite the cup win, it cost wigan in hidsight a lot more than a bad league run, as they are struggling last i seen now to even stay in the championship!

 

[Ashtonian]

Link?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...gue-prize-during-difficult-second-season.html

 

[Boss_Blue]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...gue-prize-during-difficult-second-season.html

That's the one .

 

[Tubey]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...gue-prize-during-difficult-second-season.html

Nothing we didn't know - he's not a pragmatist. If he was pragmatic, he'd have adjusted how he used a talented squad to get us out of trouble.

 

[Boss_Blue]

How did i mate?

Just mean that playing his philosophy got him a trophy in the cup but also got them relegated by not being able to win enough games to stay up. So instead of making sure that they stayed up (going for the win) he refused to change and despite the cup win, it cost wigan in hidsight a lot more than a bad league run, as they are struggling last i seen now to even stay in the championship!

I got your point mate.

Just being a pedant as I've had no sleep.

 

[Ashtonian]

other notable quotes from him;

As a manager, I have the big advantage of being able to see what went wrong, the things not working, how we can change it for the next game

He will not “park the bus” to secure results to win a trophy. “I don’t think you would win it. You will always fall short.”

I’m of a school of going to a game and enjoying a skill, a piece of talent that makes something happen, that gives you real pleasure. Winning is very, very important but you can chase that dream with good football, not just ‘finding a way’ to win.”

We don’t want to think ‘we can only fight for fifth position’. We want to go further.

But do you over-pass? “Never! I don’t think you can. You can never over-pass. Passing for the sake of it is not going to take you anywhere. There’s a reason behind every pass.” Even if sideways or backwards? “Yes, yes.” Even if back to the keeper? “As long as there’s a reason for it.” But Goodison craves more urgency. “No, no, no, yes, no. We are a very dynamic side as well. We can adapt to different opposition or different situations.

“Our philosophy is that we want to be a team that always goes out for a win, to find a way to control the game, be a dominant force, be dynamic, be flexible tactically.’’

“Yes, yes, but I’ve been down with 36 points and it’s very tough to get 36 points in this league

 

[daz4matty]

other notable quotes from him;

As a manager, I have the big advantage of being able to see what went wrong, the things not working, how we can change it for the next game

He will not “park the bus” to secure results to win a trophy. “I don’t think you would win it. You will always fall short.”

I’m of a school of going to a game and enjoying a skill, a piece of talent that makes something happen, that gives you real pleasure. Winning is very, very important but you can chase that dream with good football, not just ‘finding a way’ to win.”

We don’t want to think ‘we can only fight for fifth position’. We want to go further.

But do you over-pass? “Never! I don’t think you can. You can never over-pass. Passing for the sake of it is not going to take you anywhere. There’s a reason behind every pass.” Even if sideways or backwards? “Yes, yes.” Even if back to the keeper? “As long as there’s a reason for it.” But Goodison craves more urgency. “No, no, no, yes, no. We are a very dynamic side as well. We can adapt to different opposition or different situations.

“Our philosophy is that we want to be a team that always goes out for a win, to find a way to control the game, be a dominant force, be dynamic, be flexible tactically.’’

“Yes, yes, but I’ve been down with 36 points and it’s very tough to get 36 points in this league

He is losing the plot and gambling with our future.
How are we a very dynamic side?

 

[davek]

Reading snippets of an interview with him this morning there is some amazing things.

1. winning trophies is not good if it means changing your philosophy.
2. Basically he doesnt want to change philosophy and follows the Wenger way of thinking of good football over juwst outright success.
3. He wont win at all costs if it changes our style!
4. Howard has had a good season.


Now where do you begin with this? keeping the philosophy over winning trophies, well ask the businessmen at wigan if they agree with an f.a cup and relegation?! He has taken a top club down to a battle but he will keep sending the same tactics out that arent working because getting the win isnt important enough? expect to see us not win a trophy unless we are passing our way to it?

I read that on Saturday. There's nothing controversial or 'amazing' in it. It's exactly what you'd expect to be in there.


'He will not “park the bus” to secure results to win a trophy. “I don’t think you would win it. You will always fall short.”
So his view is that you cant win a trophy in the first place if you cant play good football (his 'philosphy').

As for that 'philosphy': But do you over-pass? “Never! I don’t think you can. You can never over-pass. Passing for the sake of it is not going to take you anywhere. There’s a reason behind every pass.”..."We are a very dynamic side as well. We can adapt to different opposition or different situations."
Thats pragmatic rather than blind idealism.

He said Howard has had a strong season...whatever that means....no doubt stuck for a convincing reason for bringing him back in.

 

[KevMirallas]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...gue-prize-during-difficult-second-season.html

I'd implore people to read this whole thing, not the handful of quotes chucked up here.

Martinez has always been for the long term, and while last season's success perhaps fooled us into getting impatient, it would be such a mistake to dismiss the long term plan at the first hiccup.