2019/20 Marcel Brands

[EvertonFury19]

Before Koeman we had a core of good young players, but the culture of the club was still "Moyesian". A large group of older players - small time cowards who couldn't grasp the nettle and play with belief in themselves - who ruled the roost. The shame was that a man so out of his depth like Koeman took over and got hold of the windfall from the sale of those young stars. It's the biggest error made by Everton in the last few decades.

Small time cowards, come on

 

[EvertonFury19]

Yep, Koeman and Walsh are entirely responsible for setting us back.

Koeman was inept and really couldn't be bothered / just wanted the pay day. Took serious golf holidays.

Wlash is a scout nothing more, giving him the budget and director role was always going to be disastrous.

Moshiri learned his lesson a little too late but at least he's made the correct decision with Brands as a proper DoF

 

[Neiler]

Yep, Koeman and Walsh are entirely responsible for setting us back.

Koeman was inept and really couldn't be bothered / just wanted the pay day. Took serious golf holidays.

Wlash is a scout nothing more, giving him the budget and director role was always going to be disastrous.

I think Walsh has a bad rep, but i think in time it will prove he had an eye for a player. I will be interested to see the final totting up of his signings

 

[catcherintherye]

I think Walsh has a bad rep, but i think in time it will prove he had an eye for a player. I will be interested to see the final totting up of his signings

The judgement I made on Walsh was never about his poor ability to judge players. Some of it was down to negotiation (i.e. we often paid a bit too much) or that we didn't close enough deals but more down to a complete lack of planning and control.

It was chaotic in the extreme how we approached recruitment where we looked to have very little idea of what we were doing.

He scouted and went for a number of really talented players though. Brooks, Isak, Zizkee, Lookman, Calvert Lewin, Sessegnon, Bailey & Haller all while they were relatively cheap. Add in Onyekuru & Vlasic who we will make significant profits on and you can see had he been stronger in his convictions and closed deals rather than pandering to Koeman he may have made a success of the job.

 

[GwladysPhil]

I think Walsh has a bad rep, but i think in time it will prove he had an eye for a player. I will be interested to see the final totting up of his signings

He's a scout - so yes he will have an eye for a player, but that's it.

 

[GwladysPhil]

Moshiri learned his lesson a little too late but at least he's made the correct decision with Brands as a proper DoF

What could have been hey...

 

[Nyhus]

I think Walsh has a bad rep, but i think in time it will prove he had an eye for a player. I will be interested to see the final totting up of his signings

Most of the young players he bought are starting to pay off. Even Keane is doing okey to well. I think most of his buys would have been good, if the price and salarys were slashed. Some were absolute bombs tho, and those are the ones we'll remember.

 

[Neiler]

The judgement I made on Walsh was never about his poor ability to judge players. Some of it was down to negotiation (i.e. we often paid a bit too much) or that we didn't close enough deals but more down to a complete lack of planning and control.

It was chaotic in the extreme how we approached recruitment where we looked to have very little idea of what we were doing.

He scouted and went for a number of really talented players though. Brooks, Isak, Zizkee, Lookman, Calvert Lewin, Sessegnon, Bailey & Haller all while they were relatively cheap. Add in Onyekuru & Vlasic who we will make significant profits on and you can see had he been stronger in his convictions and closed deals rather than pandering to Koeman he may have made a success of the job.

I think thats wholly accurate mate and where i am with it. Its why i often think he gets a bad rep, i think ultimately we could be in the black with his player purchases while i think he did well at times with clearing the squad particularly in Jan 17.

I tend to think the malfunction on recruitment was on the Koeman and board end of things. My analysis, was that most of the really poor deals we did where Koeman picks. Maybe an accusation leveled at Walsh is he wasnt strong enough in that particular dynamic and perhaps in an attempt to keep the peace or be flexible in the working arrangement bended with Koeman, he certainly came across as a mild mannered man. From a board point of view i think they have to sanction deals so they are culpable as well, the contracts given were nuts. Its very interesting that Brands was promoted to the board, perhaps hes now the common sense there, hopefully.

 

[Neiler]

He's a scout - so yes he will have an eye for a player, but that's it.

Its not though really is it, its not that simple, players are investments and assets so they have either a positive or negative material effect on two things on the pitch results and finance that can be made there and a market value of potential for profit/loss etc. None of that exists with in the realm of analysis of a unilateral "i think he is a good player" or "i think he isnt". I think there are so many variables to weigh up within the decision making of recruitment and perhaps we dumb it down here at times.

As i say im not wholly convinced a lot of Walshs signings wont prove good business in time. Like i say i personally think most of the duds were Koeman babys, maybe even Bills. Ive no way of proving that of course but there is circumstantial evidence.

 

[Nyhus]

As i say im not wholly convinced a lot of Walshs signings wont prove good business in time. Like i say i personally think most of the duds were Koeman babys, maybe even Bills. Ive no way of proving that of course but there is circumstantial evidence.

Wild guess, but Id think Boa, Schneids and Klaassen-type buys were Koeman. The Lookman, DCL and Gana types I attribute more to Walsh. I might be wrong on a massive scale, but thats how it always seemed to me. A decent DOF would never have approved the Koeman buys tho, at least not for the money we spent.

 

[Neiler]

Wild guess, but Id think Boa, Schneids and Klaassen-type buys were Koeman. The Lookman, DCL and Gana types I attribute more to Walsh. I might be wrong on a massive scale, but thats how it always seemed to me. A decent DOF would never have approved the Koeman buys tho, at least not for the money we spent.

I suspect so to be honest, there is no way of proving it. Cuco and Morgan had Southampton links, Klassen, Ajax. I suspect Koeman wanted a Mane type with us and went for Bolaise. Rooney i would actually lay at the door of Bill, id say Bill was exercising some demons and being sentimental old Bill. Its what i mean by circumstantial evidance, there are definite links with Koemans finger prints.

Id blame Walsh for Williams and Sandro though. But there are some really potentially good investments id also credit him with but time will tell.

 

[catcherintherye]

I think thats wholly accurate mate and where i am with it. Its why i often think he gets a bad rep, i think ultimately we could be in the black with his player purchases while i think he did well at times with clearing the squad particularly in Jan 17.

I tend to think the malfunction on recruitment was on the Koeman and board end of things. My analysis, was that most of the really poor deals we did where Koeman picks. Maybe an accusation leveled at Walsh is he wasnt strong enough in that particular dynamic and perhaps in an attempt to keep the peace or be flexible in the working arrangement bended with Koeman, he certainly came across as a mild mannered man. From a board point of view i think they have to sanction deals so they are culpable as well, the contracts given were nuts. Its very interesting that Brands was promoted to the board, perhaps hes now the common sense there, hopefully.

Yes I agree with all of that.

My concern re Walsh came initially when he seemed to suggest his role was being around training a fair bit etc. I can't imagine Brands ever doing that, there is a clear separation in how he operates. It's very clear what his remit is and what his remit isn't. Being a sort of assistant manager sort (like Walsh was at Leicester) wasn't it.

There's no doubt to me he was undermined. We got him in late in the first window and it is my understanding he had an accident that made it difficult for him. In that vacuum a mixture of Koeman, Moshiri & Kenwright/Elstone began to step in and rather than having 1 plan outlined by Walsh we seemed to have 4 or 5 different ideas all merging together. In many ways I'd say the first summer window was worse than the 2nd, but Lukaku's 25 goals covered it up. Having a lad scoring 25 goals will cover a variety of sins.

Even when Brands was appointed, the Echo wrote that his remit would be different, and Walsh's was to "bring in young players" or something equivalent. How had that become his remit? That can't have been the remit he was recruited on. The likelihood to me would have been, with the force of character of Koeman and to a degree Kenwright a guy who naturally seemed at ease in the background snuck back their and allowed for a compromise to be in existence whereby he brought young players in and Koeman got what he wanted for the first team.

We've all probably done that too. When a forceful character is somewhere caved in to them and given them what they wanted. But within a business context it rarely works out well.

In fairness it's probably true to say that many of Walsh's signings could have been good, but he had some duds too. Gabbiadini has been a flop (though it smacked of a panic buy) Belfodil has done very little and in truth Sandro has been a poor buy (and that is a Walsh buy). So it's not all positives. However Koeman's insistence on PL experienced players (which lets face it are the ones he wanted) have been as a rule much worse. That to me is the quite clear demarcation in recruitment we have (with the marquee names being thrown in by Moshiri i.e. Coulibaly and Witsel).

Williams, Schneiderlin, Bolasie, Klaassen have all been poor buys while it's taken Silva to rescue Keane (but Pickford has done well). But yes had we looked for cheaper alternatives to all of the above and had more of a mixture of Walsh's signings he may have been ok.

 

[Neiler]

Yes I agree with all of that.

My concern re Walsh came initially when he seemed to suggest his role was being around training a fair bit etc. I can't imagine Brands ever doing that, there is a clear separation in how he operates. It's very clear what his remit is and what his remit isn't. Being a sort of assistant manager sort (like Walsh was at Leicester) wasn't it.

There's no doubt to me he was undermined. We got him in late in the first window and it is my understanding he had an accident that made it difficult for him. In that vacuum a mixture of Koeman, Moshiri & Kenwright/Elstone began to step in and rather than having 1 plan outlined by Walsh we seemed to have 4 or 5 different ideas all merging together. In many ways I'd say the first summer window was worse than the 2nd, but Lukaku's 25 goals covered it up. Having a lad scoring 25 goals will cover a variety of sins.

Even when Brands was appointed, the Echo wrote that his remit would be different, and Walsh's was to "bring in young players" or something equivalent. How had that become his remit? That can't have been the remit he was recruited on. The likelihood to me would have been, with the force of character of Koeman and to a degree Kenwright a guy who naturally seemed at ease in the background snuck back their and allowed for a compromise to be in existence whereby he brought young players in and Koeman got what he wanted for the first team.

We've all probably done that too. When a forceful character is somewhere caved in to them and given them what they wanted. But within a business context it rarely works out well.

In fairness it's probably true to say that many of Walsh's signings could have been good, but he had some duds too. Gabbiadini has been a flop (though it smacked of a panic buy) Belfodil has done very little and in truth Sandro has been a poor buy (and that is a Walsh buy). So it's not all positives. However Koeman's insistence on PL experienced players (which lets face it are the ones he wanted) have been as a rule much worse. That to me is the quite clear demarcation in recruitment we have (with the marquee names being thrown in by Moshiri i.e. Coulibaly and Witsel).

Williams, Schneiderlin, Bolasie, Klaassen have all been poor buys while it's taken Silva to rescue Keane (but Pickford has done well). But yes had we looked for cheaper alternatives to all of the above and had more of a mixture of Walsh's signings he may have been ok.

Its all an interesting concept, the analysis of the mild mannered man being drowned out by bigger personalities or profiles. Ive often said on here particularly in the summer of 17, it semeed like everyone got something. I think Walsh had some really good traits and attributes that are of value to a football club, but perhaps his personality and natural sense of authority was drowned out. By the time it came to signing Tosun and Walcott, it looked like a toll had been taken on him and he was blowing in the wind a bit and had subcumb to others profiles, sense of authority and bigger personalities.

The remit is also curious, i also remember those training pitch comments, one thing that struck me as puzzling was when Holgate made the allegation over racist abuse by Firmino, Sam said that the DOF would deal wit it with the FA officials. Seemed to me that maybe bigger personalities were dictating his role at times. I would hazard a guess that come the end of days in those last six months it was like the wild west at the club, the team all over the place, three managers in as many months, a director of football whose role seemed to be chopped and changed depending and seemed very demoralised by it all and the heat he was getting probably internally and externally at the club.

I still think many of his signings will prove good investments and he had merits at some aspects of the job, but perhaps he didnt have the natural authority or personality traits to really stand his ground and act with conviction. Not criticizing the man personally you understand.

Not sure hes been seen in football since.

 

[davek]

Small time cowards, come on

That's what they were. Dullards chosen by Moyes who (like him) were happy in their comfort zone.

 

[davek]

Its all an interesting concept, the analysis of the mild mannered man being drowned out by bigger personalities or profiles. Ive often said on here particularly in the summer of 17, it semeed like everyone got something. I think Walsh had some really good traits and attributes that are of value to a football club, but perhaps his personality and natural sense of authority was drowned out. By the time it came to signing Tosun and Walcott, it looked like a toll had been taken on him and he was blowing in the wind a bit and had subcumb to others profiles, sense of authority and bigger personalities.

The remit is also curious, i also remember those training pitch comments, one thing that struck me as puzzling was when Holgate made the allegation over racist abuse by Firmino, Sam said that the DOF would deal wit it with the FA officials. Seemed to me that maybe bigger personalities were dictating his role at times. I would hazard a guess that come the end of days in those last six months it was like the wild west at the club, the team all over the place, three managers in as many months, a director of football whose role seemed to be chopped and changed depending and seemed very demoralised by it all and the heat he was getting probably internally and externally at the club.

I still think many of his signings will prove good investments and he had merits at some aspects of the job, but perhaps he didnt have the natural authority or personality traits to really stand his ground and act with conviction. Not criticizing the man personally you understand.

Not sure hes been seen in football since.

Walsh was a good head scout and should have been hired on that basis.

It all comes back to how completely clueless Moshiri is about football. His appointments up to Silva/Brands have been atrocious.