Maradona

[Walken]

Isnt Shilton a bad Tory? I could be wrong, but im sure he is

Full on blind but vocal brexiteer, not sure about his other allegiances

 

[TippEverton]

Can you imagine 86 southall losing that, and shilton is the more revered keeper in the uk

And never a mention that maybe Shilton should have done better for it.

The outrage from everyone ever since, notably him and that Butcher I've always found hilarious as Argentina were by far and away the better team that day anyway.

 

[longers]

He's simply the greatest player of all time, and only little Englanders still pissed off over the Hand of God incident say otherwise.

Just because you say something with lots of conviction doesn’t mean what you’re saying is true...

i don’t know anyone who is arsed abot his handball, I was five years old lol. I still rate Messi better, most people do... he’s statistically on another planet, more consistent, more successful overall, didn’t ruin his own career and thanks to the advances in technology and sports science is a vastly superior athlete.

 

[d34noj]

Just because you say something with lots of conviction doesn’t mean what you’re saying is true...

i don’t know anyone who is arsed abot his handball, I was five years old lol. I still rate Messi better, most people do... he’s statistically on another planet, more consistent, more successful overall, didn’t ruin his own career and thanks to the advances in technology and sports science is a vastly superior athlete.

Advances in HGH. If he was as nature intended he'd be 4 and a half foot tall knocking around in the second division in Argentina somewhere. To create a level playing field they ought to have injected Ronaldo with the same.

See how that pans out.

 

[davek]

Just because you say something with lots of conviction doesn’t mean what you’re saying is true...

i don’t know anyone who is arsed abot his handball, I was five years old lol. I still rate Messi better, most people do... he’s statistically on another planet, more consistent, more successful overall, didn’t ruin his own career and thanks to the advances in technology and sports science is a vastly superior athlete.

Right, that clinches it then.

 

[longers]

Advances in HGH. If he was as nature intended he'd be 4 and a half foot tall knocking around in the second division in Argentina somewhere. To create a level playing field they ought to have injected Ronaldo with the same.

See how that pans out.

No amount of HGH is going to make Ronaldo play like Messi, different play style, different physiques.

 

[longers]

Right, that clinches it then.

Classic Davek. Ignore all the other reasons and instead focus on one specific bit of the post and pretend that this is the only argument being made as to why he's better. I know your methods too well

What I might concede it that Maradona maybe had more natural talent (he's probably a better trickster/dribbler tbh) and that if he had been born in same generation as Messi he could have maybe been better... but the fact is he wasn't, he played in the 80's when football was way less professional than it is today and players way worse conditioned.

Messi is objectively the better footballer, even if part of that is down to the perks of being born a generation later.

 

[artetas_biggest_fan]

He's simply the greatest player of all time, and only little Englanders still pissed off over the Hand of God incident say otherwise.

I love him for his goal vs England (the first one).

Talent wise, with the ball at his feet, no-one touches Messi.

The eyes don’t lie. Messi has thousands of wow moments, no amount of footage of any other player comes remotely close. One example.





There is no footage of any player that can do what Messi does. No one could post it on here as It doesn’t exist. His ball control and touch is on another level to anyone who has ever kicked a ball.

 

[artetas_biggest_fan]

This argument about Ronaldo I don't really get. In recent years he's basically a centre forward, and it was shown during the recent Nations League (or whatever it's called), that he barely touched the ball in the game he scored a hat-trick in. That's not to dismiss the goals he scored, but he clearly had team mates setting them up for him as they weren't goals he created out of nothing. Just as the role of those team mates in setting up Ronaldo seems to be ignored, so too is the role of the team mates who miss the chances Messi sets up for them ignored. Football is a team game.

I mean Gerd Muller scored an absurd number of goals, but he isn't spoken of in these conversations because goals was pretty much all he offered, and people appreciate the role of his exceptional team mates in setting them up for him. People seem to conflate the young Ronaldo who was a winger with a wide range of skills who could do an awful lot on the pitch, with the current version who 'just' scores goals.

Like the Müller comparison. Finisher. Essentially that is what Cristiano has become (earlier years he was more involved).

In terms of productivity, statistics, Cristiano is definitely among the 5 to 10 best ever. He gets on the end of stuff, and finishes brilliantly. In terms ability on the ball (dribbling, passing, vision, touch etc.) he wouldn’t be top 20. His involvement in games has always been minuscule in comparison to Messi.

Cristiano isn’t even the best Ronaldo.

Messi is a playmaker and a finisher in one, and bar Pelé, there is nobody who comes remotely close to this combination.

 

[Billysgingham.]

It's all about opinions and you have to respect the the right of everybody to have one, but anyone who thinks Messi is as good as Diego are talking out their bottom, in my opinion.

 

[longers]

I wonder if in 20 years time when some new guy comes along and is destroying all Messi's record if I'll delude myself into believing Messi was better simply because he was part of my generation... I hope not, but I probably will, old man syndrome always wins out.

 

[davek]

Classic Davek. Ignore all the other reasons and instead focus on one specific bit of the post and pretend that this is the only argument being made as to why he's better. I know your methods too well

What I might concede it that Maradona maybe had more natural talent (he's probably a better trickster/dribbler tbh) and that if he had been born in same generation as Messi he could have maybe been better... but the fact is he wasn't, he played in the 80's when football was way less professional than it is today and players way worse conditioned.

Messi is objectively the better footballer, even if part of that is down to the perks of being born a generation later.

Honestly mate, I could go into the detail and make the case for Maradona, but I cant be arsed. It's like asking someone to explain why the northern lights are more mesemerising than Blackpool illuminations.

You either get football and get the difference or you dont.

 

[davek]

I love him for his goal vs England (the first one).

Talent wise, with the ball at his feet, no-one touches Messi.

The eyes don’t lie. Messi has thousands of wow moments, no amount of footage of any other player comes remotely close. One example.





There is no footage of any player that can do what Messi does. No one could post it on here as It doesn’t exist. His ball control and touch is on another level to anyone who has ever kicked a ball.

...against defenders who cant challenge or they're booked / sent off, so stay on their feet and allow him to eat up ground.

Messi has great talent, there is no questioning that. But he plays in an era when the cards are stacked massively in the favour of a player like him; El Diego had it the opposite way around. That's why he's a God. The best ever.

 

[longers]

Honestly mate, I could go into the detail and make the case for Maradona, but I cant be arsed. It's like asking someone to explain why the northern lights are more mesemerising than Blackpool illuminations.

You either get football and get the difference or you dont.

I’m sure you could go into detail but it wouldn’t be based on you watching him every week... it would be based on opinions of others who watched him every week. People forget that barely anyone got to watch him play every week because Italian football wasn’t aired over here until the early 90s, not forgetting majority of games weren’t even broadcast live domestically let alone to worldwide audiences. Foreign football was not easily accessible whereas nowadays it’s easy for anyone to watch every single second that Messi plays... opinions on Messi tend to be based more on facts/stats because of this whereas the arguments for Maradona being the best seems to revolve more around feelings and repeating what other people’s experiences of having watched him every week were. The fact you’ve resorted to some vague nothing phrase about “getting football” to back your views up is evidence of this as are your constant exaggerations about him playing with bums at the time.

 

[davek]

I’m sure you could go into detail but it wouldn’t be based on you watching him every week... it would be based on opinions of others who watched him every week. People forget that barely anyone got to watch him play every week because Italian football wasn’t aired over here until the early 90s, not forgetting majority of games weren’t even broadcast live domestically let alone to worldwide audiences. Foreign football was not easily accessible whereas nowadays it’s easy for anyone to watch every single second that Messi plays... opinions on Messi tend to be based more on facts because of this, the arguements for maradona being the best seems to revolve around feelings and repeating what other people’s experiences of having watched him regularly were. the fact you’ve resorted to some vague wish washy nothing phrase about “getting football” to back your views up is evidence of this as are your constant exaggerations about him playing with bums at the time.

He was seen enough in international football to make the judgement.

It's only subjective if you think that what Maradona achieved in terms of winning major trophies in the unlikeliest of teams is irrelevant; or that the rules of the game in terms of favouring defence over attack at the time he played are meaningless. It's not, and it isn't.

They frame the debate...such as it is.

If you placed Messi in the Napoli teams of the 80s or the Argentine team of 86 there would not be the same outcome as the one's that occurred when Maradona played for them. You simply CANNOT reverse the point and claim that Maradona couldn't have done and achieved what Messi has done with Barcelona.

THAT is the nub of the matter.