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Maradona

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wainy said:
Probably the best ever. No questions he dragged a bang average Argentina side to a World Cup and dragged a bang average Napoli side to the league title. Would love to have seen Messi or CR attempt to do that.
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An Argentina side full of players from the Argentine club sides who dominated the Copa Libertadores, and a Napoli side with half a dozen Italian internationals. Real cloggers though.
 
Walken said:
Messi shrugs his shoulders when he's not playing for the best team in the world too many times, puts him behind CR7, Maradona and quite a few others. Wouldn't make my top 5
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This argument about Ronaldo I don't really get. In recent years he's basically a centre forward, and it was shown during the recent Nations League (or whatever it's called), that he barely touched the ball in the game he scored a hat-trick in. That's not to dismiss the goals he scored, but he clearly had team mates setting them up for him as they weren't goals he created out of nothing. Just as the role of those team mates in setting up Ronaldo seems to be ignored, so too is the role of the team mates who miss the chances Messi sets up for them ignored. Football is a team game.

I mean Gerd Muller scored an absurd number of goals, but he isn't spoken of in these conversations because goals was pretty much all he offered, and people appreciate the role of his exceptional team mates in setting them up for him. People seem to conflate the young Ronaldo who was a winger with a wide range of skills who could do an awful lot on the pitch, with the current version who 'just' scores goals.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
This argument about Ronaldo I don't really get. In recent years he's basically a centre forward, and it was shown during the recent Nations League (or whatever it's called), that he barely touched the ball in the game he scored a hat-trick in. That's not to dismiss the goals he scored, but he clearly had team mates setting them up for him as they weren't goals he created out of nothing. Just as the role of those team mates in setting up Ronaldo seems to be ignored, so too is the role of the team mates who miss the chances Messi sets up for them ignored. Football is a team game.

I mean Gerd Muller scored an absurd number of goals, but he isn't spoken of in these conversations because goals was pretty much all he offered, and people appreciate the role of his exceptional team mates in setting them up for him. People seem to conflate the young Ronaldo who was a winger with a wide range of skills who could do an awful lot on the pitch, with the current version who 'just' scores goals.
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My statement isn't about the best team, it's about the best player.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
An Argentina side full of players from the Argentine club sides who dominated the Copa Libertadores, and a Napoli side with half a dozen Italian internationals. Real cloggers though.
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Like saying this Everton team is full of internationals. Napoli hadn't won the league in their history and funnily enough haven't won it since, but won it twice and came second twice with Maradona.

And wasn't he involved in something like 2/3rds of Argentina's goals in that world cup? Sounds like he dragged them to the trophy even if he never played so well in the final.

Debatable if hes the best ever, but he certainly is right up there with them.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Err, in the entirety of his time at Napoli, he never once made less than 26 games per season, with an average of 37 games per season. Indeed, for the first 6 seasons at Napoli, he missed 8 league games in that entire time, despite him apparently having his leg broken every other week by thuggish defenders. It's yet another myth that shatters when exposed to reality.
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Based on that argument of using injury record to support leveks of physicality on the pitch Danny Welbeck must be playing against Chopper Harris and Billy Hurst every week eh....

Are you hoping that people don't have access to stats from that era? In 86 maradona was fouled 53 times.... a record for any player in the world cup. The Italian league and every other league pre 90's outlawing the types of tackles that ended van bastens career were rough....





Watch this band truly wonder how he never ended up crippled
 
wainy said:
Like saying this Everton team is full of internationals. Napoli hadn't won the league in their history and funnily enough haven't won it since, but won it twice and came second twice with Maradona.

And wasn't he involved in something like 2/3rds of Argentina's goals in that world cup? Sounds like he dragged them to the trophy even if he never played so well in the final.

Debatable if hes the best ever, but he certainly is right up there with them.
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I don't understand this theory that he didn't play well in the final against Germany. Yes, he wasn't the spectacular match winner of earlier rounds but Germany came up with a plan to crowd him out, surrounding him with players whenever he received the ball. Diego, like the intelligent player he was, simply controlled the ball, drew his opponents in, and then played mainly simple passes to teammates, thus taking 3 or 4 Germans out of the game.
Being a genius, he made it look easy, and the result proves it was the correct thing to do.
 
davek said:
He's simply the greatest player of all time, and only little Englanders still pissed off over the Hand of God incident say otherwise.
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Defo is since football has been in the TV era, i would like to have seen Garrincha play properly, many Brazilian people rate him better than Pele. Not much to see of him other than a few bits of very grainy black and white footage.
 
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