Man City Banned From Europe

[moyeslovechild]

are the elite clubs just the clubs that are doing well right now?

ac milan are what i'd say are an an elite club and were the last to be banned from european competition due to ffp

 

[matty1878]

We are so finishing 5th and they will overturn the decision, if you haven't accepted this your not an Evertonian.

No we’re not

 

[Moomin]

No we’re not

Always so negative you.

Lets dream big.

 

[catcherintherye]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50668975

Thanks buddy.

The issue with City I suppose, is if they are kicked out, and it's proven to be wrong, expect litigation for loss of income to follow. Can UEFA pay the 30 million fine, plus the £50+million in lost revenue, plus any damage to reputation that their potentially flawed initial judgement said. It's a big risk. The easy play is to reinstate and see what the courts say. UEFA are playing with fire.

 

[ToffeeDan]

So is the issue the source of the money or do you believe FFP is not a sham designed to protect the position of the 'elite'?

FFP is not a sham. How else do you explain how several clubs have been caught in the headlights. Admittedly not every club has been done after the investigation but City have obviously been ignoring the rules. I suppose many other teams have too and some have found a way round it. But the contents of those emails clearly demonstrate City knew what they were doing.

In the matter of Usmanov for example I think you will find that, whatever shareholding or influence he has at Everton, it seems he volunteered those sponsorships (some before joining the board) without being the owner in the same way you or I could, in theory, sponsor the club. It's just being a bit smarter than City whose owners were so wrapped up in achieving this reflected glory lark that they happily trampled all over FFP. Ditto their cousins at PSG and probably Barca.

Not however, it should be said, the RS, who have managed their income streams and transfer revenue properly and bought well.

 

[ToffeeTim]

The premier league is infinitely better than the CL these days anyway. I think that's part of UEFAs issue. Theyve been overtaken by a far superior product.

Ask 100 english football fans and over 90% will say they would want to win the league over the CL.

 

[moyeslovechild]

in actuality the FFP rules as they stand are incredibly soft. it gives plenty of room for clubs to invest. the reality is that man city have been blatant in their disregard and actively conspired to cheat the rules.

 

[catcherintherye]

The thing is Tabas the La Liga boss. Ruminegge and a few of the other giants figures in the game from the G14 have threatened a breakaway if UEFA do not do something about City and PSG, new format of CL is coming in 2-3 seasons time and UEFA is making the CL more lucrative to please these clubs and stop the breakaway.

This happening to City because the powerful cartel of clubs have forced UEFA's hands against City, this FFP charge will stand before the early rounds of the CL start, City haven't got a chance in hell of overturning this as CAS will release the damaging documents to the public view and the statement City posted last night never actually denied the charges which was staggering.

The CAS is independent and not a kangaroo court. Maybe it stands up, but it will be a lot harder, and if it doesn't, the recriminations will be wide.

I've posted up about my feelings on the appeal. The smart move of UEFA is to let them play while it's appealed.

In all honesty, we are getting to a point whereby if a rebel league was created let them go. The CL becomes less prestigious each year. Strip each title they've ever won via UEFA as a result and state they won't ever be allowed back. Watch the unity of the 14 begin to get very nervous.

 

[catcherintherye]

The premier league is infinitely better than the CL these days anyway. I think that's part of UEFAs issue. Theyve been overtaken by a far superior product.

Ask 100 english football fans and over 90% will say they would want to win the league over the CL.

Yes and it makes the idea of a super league even more laughable. Genuinely if they want to go, go. The PL will be fine. The super league will end up like wow to the WWF's PL.

 

[bluenorthwarrior]

FFP is not a sham. How else do you explain how several clubs have been caught in the headlights. Admittedly not every club has been done after the investigation but City have obviously been ignoring the rules. I suppose many other teams have too and some have found a way round it. But the contents of those emails clearly demonstrate City knew what they were doing.

In the matter of Usmanov for example I think you will find thya, whatever shareholding or influence he has at Everton, it seems he volunteered those sponsorships without being the owner in the same way you or I could, in theory, sponsor the club. It's just being a bit smarter than City whose owners were so wrapped up in achieving this reflected glory lark that they happily trampled all over FFP. Ditto their cousins at PSG and probably Barca.

Not however, it should be said, the RS, who have managed their income streams and transfer revenue properly and bought well.

In my view this misses the bigger point that FFP is fundamentally not fair. Certain clubs can spend 250m a year on players, other clubs less than 100m.

This is not fair in a sporting sense, it is enabling clubs with historic success and therefore revenues to outmuscle others and keep themselves at top and on the euro gravy train year on year.

For fair play rules see rugby - a salary cap that is the same for all. Break it and get punished a la sarries, however if a 'lesser' club gets a new owner they can choose to invest up to this consistent and level limit. That is FFP, uefa rules are nothing of the sort and thus a sham.

 

[PDAWG]

T
This so why FFP can't work. What chance do we have if we can spend 100m per year on new players whilst other clubs can spend 250m per year (legally) under FFP.

The only fair system would be spend caps and salary caps that are exactly the same for all clubs, not linked to size of club and revenue.

I agree that the system is flawed, Salary cap wouldn't work imo, The big clubs will always get the better player if a club below them couldn't offer a higher salary

It's a really hard situation to manage, On one hand you want new teams competing and challenging the European giants, But on the other hand the way City have spent since the takeover has ruined football in the country, No side can compete with them in the transfer market, If this ban isn't upheld can you imagine what they will spend again in the summer

 

[alvinh]

In fairness the commitment to city has been significant. A lot of money has gone into infrastructure.

Yes that's where owners should be encouraged to direct outside investment, improve a club's prospects for the long haul and they'll naturally be able to compete better in the transfer market etc. That would also stop the transfer market being inflated beyond the reach of club's without billionaire owners, like EFC just a few years ago.

 

[alvinh]

I agree that the system is flawed, Salary cap wouldn't work imo, The big clubs will always get the better player if a club below them couldn't offer a higher salary

It's a really hard situation to manage, On one hand you want new teams competing and challenging the European giants, But on the other hand the way City have spent since the takeover has ruined football in the country, No side can compete with them in the transfer market, If this ban isn't upheld can you imagine what they will spend again in the summer

The NFL in the US operates a draft pick system which see's the club finishing bottom getting the first pick of the best new talent. Not sure if that could ever happen here, but at least it offers a chance at levelling the playing field.

 

[Tipp blue]

I didn't say it everything was right under Moyes but maybe if FFP had been in operation those consecutive 5th place finishes would have got Everton into the Champions League and he could've built on that. All ifs and maybes.

Anyway I get your objection to the idea of FFP and I agree it's not been implemented well, but that's the rule that everyone agreed to abide by. I don't see why someone should be above the rules everyone agreed to, just because their owner is worth billions.



I don't always agree with him but he's consistent on FFP, remember watching him on Sunday Supplement awhile ago.

I agree with this point:



FFP should be about protecting football clubs from themselves, it should stop clubs 'doing a Leeds' and jeopardising the long term future of the club by going into massive debt. If an Abramovitch, Usmanov or Mansour wants to throw money in however that's different.

Although, they should be made to commit support for the long term, not get bored and leave a club with outgoings it could never sustain.

The only organisation in the world that is activity against investment, imagine any other business sector being told that some billionaire coming along to plough money in, is not allowed..

 

[PDAWG]

The NFL in the US operates a draft pick system which see's the club finishing bottom getting the first pick of the best new talent. Not sure if that could ever happen here, but at least it offers a chance at levelling the playing field.

Maybe the amount you can spend on players goes up the further down you finish in the league. 1st can spend 100m, 2nd 120m and so on