Man City Banned From Europe

[Pudsey]

This could be good for us in the short term but is concerning long term. There is a very good article from Martin Samuel in the Mail talking about the driver for FFP being to maintain the established order.

City have been singled out when it is clear some of the more established clubs have also been up to no good. Where have Inter Milan and Juventus suddenly got all there money from. There does not seem to be any punishment for clubs like United who are loaded with debt but still are able to go out and spend huge sums.

Basically it is pretty much impossible now for a club like us to join the top table. The best we can ever hope for is a one off season like a Leicester scenario.

Basically the difference is that Utd have a monsterous commercial income stream that easily covers their massive debt payments and so they continue. We, on the other hand, do not and even if BMD comes off will need to tread carefully now FFP seems to be being used as intended by UEFA.

 

[alvinh]

Your post makes it sound that it was alright under Moyes.
When in reality it wasnt.

Its widely accepted we didnt have a pot to pee in and sold our best players just to survive.

We now have owners that have bottom less pits of money its not as you say we should look the other way .
We had nowt ( and major debts) we dont have that problem now , but bet your bottom dollar if the owners spend above FFP they would delight in sanctioning us .

That my friend is where it is wrong ,at the very least its a restriction in trade.
Its like buying a business , yet you cant invest in it in case you upset the other business's that have had a monopoly for years even if you have limitless funds to ensure you dont go bust.
FFP is wrong by its very definition.

I didn't say it everything was right under Moyes but maybe if FFP had been in operation those consecutive 5th place finishes would have got Everton into the Champions League and he could've built on that. All ifs and maybes.

Anyway I get your objection to the idea of FFP and I agree it's not been implemented well, but that's the rule that everyone agreed to abide by. I don't see why someone should be above the rules everyone agreed to, just because their owner is worth billions.

This could be good for us in the short term but is concerning long term. There is a very good article from Martin Samuel in the Mail talking about the driver for FFP being to maintain the established order.

City have been singled out when it is clear some of the more established clubs have also been up to no good. Where have Inter Milan and Juventus suddenly got all there money from. There does not seem to be any punishment for clubs like United who are loaded with debt but still are able to go out and spend huge sums.

Basically it is pretty much impossible now for a club like us to join the top table. The best we can ever hope for is a one off season like a Leicester scenario.

I don't always agree with him but he's consistent on FFP, remember watching him on Sunday Supplement awhile ago.

I agree with this point:

Financial fair play was corrupted from birth by those at the top, warped into the most naked protectionism. It was supposed to be about debt, but ended up placing limitations on owner investment. A club loaded with debt, like Manchester United, is fully compliant; a club without debt, like City, is not.

FFP should be about protecting football clubs from themselves, it should stop clubs 'doing a Leeds' and jeopardising the long term future of the club by going into massive debt. If an Abramovitch, Usmanov or Mansour wants to throw money in however that's different.

Although, they should be made to commit support for the long term, not get bored and leave a club with outgoings it could never sustain.

 

[daza_1973]

So if I understand this, Villa are guaranteed Europa League next year and 5th gets you into the Big Cup?

End of the season just got interesting!

Championship Europa league team - Millwall 2004 revisited

 

[jonnyboy316]

Inter are owned by a Chinese conglomerate.

And Juve are owned by the Agnelli family who who own Fiat group including Ferrari Maserati etc.

Both clubs are 2 of the biggest three in Italy and haven't been found guilty of FFP breaches like the other big club in Italy AC Milan who are into a first season of a 2 year ban for FFP breaches.

City are owned by a state who have constantly financially doped and have been found guilty TWICE now by UEFA.

Not only did they have over inflated commercial deals, they have created 2 company houses to bring the wage bill down and lower the wages to turnover percentage down to stop UEFA investigating them, and they as we now know also created a vehicle in a tax haven Carribean country that they sold image rights to then used that vehicle to pay them money back to into the club coffers to cover their massive losses, HRMC are looking into this offshore company apparently as it seems players and club haven't been paying any taxes on the image rights.

Thanks. Barcelona are the other one that interests me. Apparently over a billion in debt following the Greizman purchase. I thought the purpose of FFP was to protect clubs against financial ruin. I am aware that Barca have huge revenues but surely clubs loading themselves with debt are at greater risk of financial ruin. several years of poor form post Messi could see them in all sorts of trouble.

 

[BigBlueConk]

The big IF we do get into European competition by whatever means, we need a heck of a lot of new/better players if we are to be successful in it.
Or it will just be like last time.

 

[jonnyboy316]

I didn't say it everything was right under Moyes but maybe if FFP had been in operation those consecutive 5th place finishes would have got Everton into the Champions League and he could've built on that. All ifs and maybes.

Anyway I get your objection to the idea of FFP and I agree it's not been implemented well, but that's the rule that everyone agreed to abide by. I don't see why someone should be above the rules everyone agreed to, just because their owner is worth billions.



I don't always agree with him but he's consistent on FFP, remember watching him on Sunday Supplement awhile ago.

I agree with this point:



FFP should be about protecting football clubs from themselves, it should stop clubs 'doing a Leeds' and jeopardising the long term future of the club by going into massive debt. If an Abramovitch, Usmanov or Mansour wants to throw money in however that's different.

Although, they should be made to commit support for the long term, not get bored and leave a club with outgoings it could never sustain.

In fairness the commitment to city has been significant. A lot of money has gone into infrastructure.

 

[Saint Domingo]

We finally get some money behind us and they clamp down on ffp....its just our luck

We’ve been shafted so many different ways so many times. We get 4th but don’t get CL because we lost a qualifier to an absolutely ridiculous team. Few years later and 4th becomes a guaranteed entry into the group phase. When we were getting UEFA cup in consecutive seasons it here was no money in it, as soon as we’re out of it they massively increase the payments for being in it and make winning it a way into the CL. We struggled for years under Moyes with no money yet kept finishing 5th, as soon as we have money we hired managers who could only dream of finishing 5th. We watched Chelsea and City steam ahead of us with rich backers and as soon as we get one FFP blocks us from spending it.

We really must have broken a lot of mirrors in a former life.

 

[bluenorthwarrior]

The big IF we do get into European competition by whatever means, we need a heck of a lot of new/better players if we are to be successful in it.
Or it will just be like last time.

Which due to FFP we cannot do.

 

[Brisan123]

Eh?

10 point deduction and City could finish outside the top 4 so their CL ban would not come into play.

 

[catcherintherye]

@catcherintherye I was thinking that though Man City are appealing the ban, they still can be banned from the Champions League at least next season if it isn't heard until later in the year, I say this because Chelsea were banned for two transfer windows though they appealed it, it still stood till their case was heard.

I dont think Chelsea appealed to the CAS.

 

[bluenorthwarrior]

Stephen Warnock on 5Live defending FFP on the basis that if a non-man u, rs type club with historic revenue wants to compete it's right that they are not allowed to spend as much as these clubs but they should 'get a better manager and scouts'.

He admitted this view was from the rs side of the fence and sums up exactly the protectionism that FFP is designed to achieve, and which clubs were behind it.

 

[catcherintherye]

Nope, they can't get rid of ffp.
If they do clubs will overspend, become bankrupt , the owners leave and the fans lose their club.

It is in place to stop teams buying the league and rightly so, also ensured debts are kept to a certain level.

They can get rid of it. You might be right about the consequences, but that doesnt mean they cant get rid of it.

The market principle exists on the basis that institutions can succeed, fail or potentially go out of business. This is very much what the basis of our society is built upon, and inter competition rules that try to prevent this are likely to be viewed as anti-competitive.

They may not have to get rid of it formally either. If City win, thats the end of FFP in any meaningful sense. They will not be able to enforce their own rules.

 

[OnlyTheBestIsGoodEnough]

I dont think Chelsea appealed to the CAS.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50668975

 

[catcherintherye]

Stephen Warnock on 5Live defending FFP on the basis that if a non-man u, rs type club with historic revenue wants to compete it's right that they are not allowed to spend as much as these clubs but they should 'get a better manager and scouts'.

He admitted this view was from the rs side of the fence and sums up exactly the protectionism that FFP is designed to achieve, and which clubs were behind it.

That's basically it. Unfortunately we have anti competitiveness rules, and also rules that protect against monopolies. You are not legally allowed to do what he is describing. Its morally akin to fixing the Libor rates or whatever. Its fixing the market.

UEFA have potentially made an enormous mistake with this. Putting it out in the open could mean the ramifications go beyond just City. Dont discount the possibility of further legal action. I hope City litigate them.out of existence and bring the whole corrupt pyramid down.

 

[DixieScoresAgain]

Thanks. Barcelona are the other one that interests me. Apparently over a billion in debt following the Greizman purchase. I thought the purpose of FFP was to protect clubs against financial ruin. I am aware that Barca have huge revenues but surely clubs loading themselves with debt are at greater risk of financial ruin. several years of poor form post Messi could see them in all sorts of trouble.

Yeah i agree with you on Barca.

Their wage bill is over 350 million Euros, and Messi is on 90 million euros with(120 million euros a year after bonuses), they have a debt very much close to United's.

Barca have cash cow Messi there, keeping them afloat on and off the pitch, they have the core of the squad on the wrong side of 30 that need replacing, they are going to be in the doldrums for a few seasons post Messi.

Their recruitment after that windfall Neymar money should have been spent on defenders and a midfield, but they spent terribly on Dembele and Coutinho, now the Griezmann transfer looks a disaster as well, that is almost 400 million euros on 3 vanity signings they never really needed to make.

Contrast that with Real, the president said the days of Galacticos is over, we want to make Galacticos now, they are buying teenagers and players in the early 20's now post Ronaldo era.

The 2 young Brazilians wide forward they bought, Mendy at LB, Odegaard who they have developed is back next season from loan and now look to be signing in the summer Lautaro Martinez instead of Mbappe to replace Benzema.