Current Affairs London Protests

[Jebus_lives]

We are...

Modern Slavery Act 2015

www.legislation.gov.uk

It is a shame that in spite of Theresa May pinning AHT and MDS as a pillar of her premiership and doing something positive in respect of the MDS Act, she created an environment within the country and police forces (not all) that views 'victims' of slavery as part of the problem.

 

[ramacca]

i havnt been on a protest, but give a donation to these guys ,https://www.antislavery.org/ every now and again you can do it through paypal( currently giving my monthly charity donations, to st josephs hospice , knights of st columba,and Kirkdale abc to feed people affected by the current crisis, they have given out something like 6000 meals in the local area in the last 10 or so weeks)l bit lazy but it helps, suppose that makes me armchair supporter in reality.

Isn't it this^ that pulls us together to help others or fight against injustices, that some give money, some give time some the effort protesting in the streets. We can all help the less fortunate and make a stand against injustice in our own way and that to me is the important thing.

 

[Papa Shango]

Where I'm going is that the evidence of conviction for the police for this type of unnecessary force has an incredibly poor track record of conviction in America and even worse in the UK:

In Britain, we have our George Floyds too

From Gareth Myatt to Jimmy Mubenga to Rashan Charles – the UK Black Lives Matter protests recall injustices closer to home.

www.newstatesman.com

Police officers face no charges over man left in vegetative state

Julian Cole suffered a severed spinal cord after being arrested on a night out in Bedford in 2013, but CPS failed to find evidence against officers involved

amp.theguardian.com

Blame the Home Office if another black person dies in police custody | Stafford Scott

Amber Rudd should be holding the police to account instead of covering their backs by not releasing this critical report, says racial equality consultant Stafford Scott

amp.theguardian.com

Those defending the police are very quick to jump on any instance of harm to the police, but here is a tweet from the police firearms association tweeting this at a time when, in spite of one part of the police praising largely peaceful protests, others are looking for violence against the police as justified as violence against protestors.

The pictures are from a 4 year period rather than the weekend, and is completely irresponsible from an organisation trusted to represent UK firearms officers. Who is ramping up violence?

That is so bad, and the response from them after they were busted is even worse.

 

[edge]

thats a good whack, personally I think anyone doingwhatever they can is good and shouldn’t be derided as lazy when it’s possible to just do nothing. I’m sure many on BLM protests would fully support you too

I look at it this way at least i know its doing some good and you dont think twice about putting a lottery ticket on 4 times a week or whatever, so why worry about a few quid here and there averages out £40+ a month at the moment to help somebody who needs a little bit of help, i would only spend it on some impulse buying gadgets off the net while i am bored in work.
https://twitter.com/Kirkdaleboxing1, little bit on the kirkdale thing my mate delivers for them every day, thats how i have found out about it and give the money to him to pass on, always grateful , his mrs cooks for them at home, i like the local community doing stuff like that although i dont live there anymore.

 

[Jebus_lives]

That is so bad, and the response from them after they were busted is even worse.

Police Twitter feeds tend to be a bit angry and defensive

 

[catcherintherye]

Not getting into that.

We will have to agree to disagree.

The problem we have is we refuse to teach Churchill honestly in this country. In all honesty we don't teach Britains past honestly either. We are enormously defensive about the things we've done wrong. Strong powerful institutions, organisations, countries or whatever else can honestly and openly reflect on their past. As a country we're just not able to do that really. You just get the nonsense "you hate our country" stuff. What is really hateful to the country would be to assume we could have done no better than have 300 years of the slave trade.

As for Churchill, he's a contradictory character. Displayed elements of racism, put the troops onto working people, behaved dubiously (and thats being kind) to Indians etc. He was also a man who probably did more than any figure in this country to oppose the Nazi's. He was not a fascist like Hitler. When he said no to Hitler, whatever his reasons, we were at that moment on our own and looking in a really bad place. He could have got out and ran away, like most of the Tory establishment were considering, but he stayed and tried to resist.

I think if we taught things more openly and honesty, a lot of the anger would be dissipated against it. I hope the police move along any louts planning on protecting the statue (who are really their to antagonise people). Again, the absolute last thing Churchill would have wanted to be associated with is scum like that.

 

[peteblue]

I see that a statue of Christopher Columbus has been pulled down in the USA......

 

[catcherintherye]

What Is it with London moaning about everything. We don’t like this or that statue...guess what guys, outside of the cities, apart from a monument to those that died In WW1 & WW2 we don’t have any monuments. None. And away from the Port cities of London, Bristol and Liverpool, the only slavery that existed in this country was white slavery in the countryside and factories.

The vast majority of the people of this country have absolutely no link to slave trading or any form of racism. Their ancestors worked hard in the fields or factories for their masters. So why should anyone, whose family have had nothing to do with slavery or racism be called to account now. Just being British and white isn’t an answer, that’s just another form of racist attack. This is why ordinary people get upset.

So come on, hands up, just who on here has an ancestor who was engaged in the slave trade, who on here has been engaged in racism, because if you haven’t, either directly or through lineage, then why feel any guilt. You have done nothing wrong so why the hell are you getting the blame.

If our middle class millennials (of any colour), elite Liberals, ‘Celebrities’ or Politicians wish to engage in virtue signalling, then let them, but the majority of the rest of the population have absolutely nothing to do with this apart from paying a price to indulge these protesters...

I consider myself an "ordinary person" Pete and feel the presence of statues of slave owners sends all the wrong messages. If we are to have statues (which I must say I am dubious about) then they should be more reflexive of the sacrifices ordinary people have made. The slave owners should be put in a Museum and the horrors of their behaviour taught. I'm really not sure why this is considered virtue signalling, or in any way controversial.

I also don't feel any guilt about slavery. My ancestors wouldn't have benefited, but even if they did I have always tried to live my life in a manner that is respectful and supportive of people irrespective of colour or creed (which I know some might call white guilt, but hey ho). The thing is though, I do acknowledge the role slaves made to not just the wealth of the city of Liverpool, but also the wealth and prosperity of our country. I do think we have to move away from phrases like guilt, and more towards an appreciation and understanding of the role enslaved people made to the prosperity of our nation. As a nation, I don't think we really do enough of that.

 

[catcherintherye]

I see that a statue of Christopher Columbus has been pulled down in the USA......

Was it the flat earthers?

 

[catcherintherye]

What does me head in is the whole ‘why do you stay here if you don’t like it’.

like you can’t have a negative opinion on the place if you live here. Why?

It's the insinuation that Britain is a white place. That black people, who were born here, raised here, have contributed lots to this country don't count. Britain has always been an ethnically diverse nation, been invaded multiple times from multiple people. People who are British citizens have nowhere to go. In all honesty, if anyone should leave, it's the racists.

 

[peteblue]

I consider myself an "ordinary person" Pete and feel the presence of statues of slave owners sends all the wrong messages. If we are to have statues (which I must say I am dubious about) then they should be more reflexive of the sacrifices ordinary people have made. The slave owners should be put in a Museum and the horrors of their behaviour taught. I'm really not sure why this is considered virtue signalling, or in any way controversial.

I also don't feel any guilt about slavery. My ancestors wouldn't have benefited, but even if they did I have always tried to live my life in a manner that is respectful and supportive of people irrespective of colour or creed (which I know some might call white guilt, but hey ho). The thing is though, I do acknowledge the role slaves made to not just the wealth of the city of Liverpool, but also the wealth and prosperity of our country. I do think we have to move away from phrases like guilt, and more towards an appreciation and understanding of the role enslaved people made to the prosperity of our nation. As a nation, I don't think we really do enough of that.

Well said. I totally agree about putting most historical statues Into local museums. National figures and War memorials being the exception. What you said is not virtue signalling, because you mean it. Politicians and CPO’s taking the knee is both cynical and ‘virtue signalling’ as practiced by quite a few from the middle class and elite.

I also totally agree with the wealth and prosperity bought on the back of slaves and everyone should be appreciative. Perhaps a Statue of someone like Colston should stand side by side of a statue of a Slave, in the same way that there is a Mandela Rhodes Scholarship......

 

[peteblue]

It's the insinuation that Britain is a white place. That black people, who were born here, raised here, have contributed lots to this country don't count. Britain has always been an ethnically diverse nation, been invaded multiple times from multiple people. People who are British citizens have nowhere to go. In all honesty, if anyone should leave, it's the racists.

Absolutely.....

 

[catcherintherye]

Well said. I totally agree about putting most historical statues Into local museums. National figures and War memorials being the exception. What you said is not virtue signalling, because you mean it. Politicians and CPO’s taking the knee is both cynical and ‘virtue signalling’ as practiced by quite a few from the middle class and elite.

I also totally agree with the wealth and prosperity bought on the back of slaves and everyone should be appreciative. Perhaps a Statue of someone like Colston should stand side by side of a statue of a Slave, in the same way that there is a Mandela Rhodes Scholarship......

I don't necessarily even think it needs a statue per se. But an explanation at a Museum that money generated for Colston to invest in Bristol really came off the back of unpaid labour of slaves be really useful. At a whole number of levels this would benefit the conversation. It places Colston in a context. I think it also shows these discussions are not simply about "us" and "them" (the evil slave owners) but that there is complexity involved. We live in nice houses or roads built off the back of that money, or have nice schools as a result etc.

As you've said we have modern slavery now. Understanding that we might like nice things, but sometimes there are consequences for it, and we need to think about that I think is important.

As you say though, as a country we can't run from difficult discussions. You have to grapple with them. I've always tried to live my life like that, you will have difficult things, nobody is perfect, but you can't just pretend they don't exist. It allows situations to fester.

The people I blame the most with the Colston affair, are the councillors who have stood in the way of putting plaque up.I saw an articulate black professor say on the news, if you block people when they try to make reasonable changes, then can we be surprised when eventually it boils over?

 

[tsubaki]

The problem we have is we refuse to teach Churchill honestly in this country. In all honesty we don't teach Britains past honestly either. We are enormously defensive about the things we've done wrong. Strong powerful institutions, organisations, countries or whatever else can honestly and openly reflect on their past. As a country we're just not able to do that really. You just get the nonsense "you hate our country" stuff. What is really hateful to the country would be to assume we could have done no better than have 300 years of the slave trade.

As for Churchill, he's a contradictory character. Displayed elements of racism, put the troops onto working people, behaved dubiously (and thats being kind) to Indians etc. He was also a man who probably did more than any figure in this country to oppose the Nazi's. He was not a fascist like Hitler. When he said no to Hitler, whatever his reasons, we were at that moment on our own and looking in a really bad place. He could have got out and ran away, like most of the Tory establishment were considering, but he stayed and tried to resist.

I think if we taught things more openly and honesty, a lot of the anger would be dissipated against it. I hope the police move along any louts planning on protecting the statue (who are really their to antagonise people). Again, the absolute last thing Churchill would have wanted to be associated with is scum like that.

TBF his commitment to opposing appeasement is best shown by how quickly he jumped at the chance to join the same Government once war loomed.

The rest of them were left to do the actual work (getting rid of Chamberlain) and very few of them, got any reward or advancement for their earlier opposition (Macmillan was the only one who did and that was more because of his war service and subsequent reinventing of himself as an Uber-Tory).

 

[catcherintherye]

Absolutely.....

I know it's a rant, but as a country we are a collage. Our language is the clearest example, we have this unique mixture of Scandanavian, German, French, Italian/Latin and old Celtic words. How many of us here are truly descended from the original Celts? If people don't like what people are saying, absolutely fine, lets have a discussion, but the go home nonsense needs to stop. I had someone who said it to me the other day, where does he want me to go?