you've been given the information you requested. You're not genuinely curious about reform, you're a chap on the internet using sarcasm to throw mud at people who are trying to raise important issues. Beneath your questioning persona, you imply I am a bigot and that my calls for reform are ill thought through. Well, I have given you a clear steer in that regard, you refuse to take it, and continue your sarcastic appeals for information.
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- Thread starter Chris Martin
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it's not warped to criticise a religion. Please, think about what you are saying.
You could just a swer the request mate? What's so hard about that?
provide you with a summary of the book, no it will only prompt further daft appeals. Go and read the book, it's not long. It contains all the information you requested.
Maybe once you have, you might reflect on your role in trying to shut down debate on this important topic, and next time it happens you might pause before screaming 'bigot!'
I won't be holding my breath like. You seem like a bit of an idiot.
For anyone interested, there’s an article from the WSJ taken from Hirsi Ali’s later book about Islamic Reformation, which sets out her argument.
For what’s it’s worth I think her rhetoric on the topic has often been extremely unhelpful, and I think her arguments place far too much emphasis purely on the text, and ignores many of the other angles of all forms of extremism - the process of radicalisation, the fact that it’s almost always young men, the role of charismatic preachers and indoctrination, foreign policy, mental health issues etc.
I’m also doubtful as to whether her proposals would, or could, work, as it would require throwing some of key tenets in the bin, akin to asking Christians to accept that Jesus was just some guy, or that the 10 commandments are just rough guidelines.
There’s a reason her arguments have been better received in non-Muslim circles, as she’s writing from an atheist position, and is often deliberately inflammatory, which is not a good starting point if the aim is to get Muslims to buy into reformation and pluralism of interpretation.
www.wsj.com
For what’s it’s worth I think her rhetoric on the topic has often been extremely unhelpful, and I think her arguments place far too much emphasis purely on the text, and ignores many of the other angles of all forms of extremism - the process of radicalisation, the fact that it’s almost always young men, the role of charismatic preachers and indoctrination, foreign policy, mental health issues etc.
I’m also doubtful as to whether her proposals would, or could, work, as it would require throwing some of key tenets in the bin, akin to asking Christians to accept that Jesus was just some guy, or that the 10 commandments are just rough guidelines.
There’s a reason her arguments have been better received in non-Muslim circles, as she’s writing from an atheist position, and is often deliberately inflammatory, which is not a good starting point if the aim is to get Muslims to buy into reformation and pluralism of interpretation.
Why Islam Needs a Reformation
To defeat the extremists for good, Muslims must reject those aspects of their tradition that prompt some believers to resort to oppression and holy war.
www.wsj.com
Mate you haven’t actually debated anything. You have just said ‘Islam needs to be reformed’ over and over in different ways. You haven’t actually backed that up in any way other than to point to a book you have read.
Do you think that’s how debate works?
If you want to debate put forward a hypothesis and then arguments, generally with evidence that support that hypothesis. No problem in referencing a source (like a book) if you are providing the argument laid out in that book. Just pointing to said book is not debating.
Kev’s gone full Colonel Kurtz tbh
Ohhh mate, we see you kev50, we see you. Precis, please? Cmon, help us out. Maybe you'll get a few folk engaging more.
Suspicion is, you just like the wum here. C'mon, precis precis please?
Naaaaaa, I'm not. He's got me beat. All ends up.
Please do
sageyefc
Player Valuation: £90m
Gammons of GOT have to stick together right
Spadge Vernacular
Player Valuation: £70m
You should consider going in hard and heavy with 'dwad' and 'didhead'!
32, born in Iraq, mother was from Iraq and father from Syria. The Family he lived with here said he never spoke about his time in Syria or Iraq
Not that im defending him at all but we havent got the first clue what these people have gone through and are living through daily. Some have known nothing else but war, horror and death their whole lives. Ive read reports of kids just becoming completely unresponsive due to trauma - its heartbreaking. Its not hard to imagine how they suffer from mental health issues. Severe PTSD etc. You see it with soldiers coming back from wars.
Maybe he did hate the west. Maybe he didnt and was an easy target for recruitment. Maybe he struggled knowing he was relatively safe but family friends etc were still living through terror. Maybe the Taliban taking over Afghanistan recently was the final straw. You could go on.
Its way too much of a complex issue to just think Muslins = Bad. We need to look at the bigger picture. Maybe we could start to help by not marching to wars, dropping bombs on these countries and selling billions worth of arms to be used on civilians because they have something we want or we benefit financially. We (the country/government) need to take responsibility for this too.
Not that im defending him at all but we havent got the first clue what these people have gone through and are living through daily. Some have known nothing else but war, horror and death their whole lives. Ive read reports of kids just becoming completely unresponsive due to trauma - its heartbreaking. Its not hard to imagine how they suffer from mental health issues. Severe PTSD etc. You see it with soldiers coming back from wars.
Maybe he did hate the west. Maybe he didnt and was an easy target for recruitment. Maybe he struggled knowing he was relatively safe but family friends etc were still living through terror. Maybe the Taliban taking over Afghanistan recently was the final straw. You could go on.
Its way too much of a complex issue to just think Muslins = Bad. We need to look at the bigger picture. Maybe we could start to help by not marching to wars, dropping bombs on these countries and selling billions worth of arms to be used on civilians because they have something we want or we benefit financially. We (the country/government) need to take responsibility for this too.
Spadge Vernacular
Player Valuation: £70m
The lunatic clearly had mental issues.
Also, if I were a Wolf, I would be furious at these idiots being badged as one of us.
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