Match Thread Liverpool v Everton - Sunday 10th December

[Bluebonic]

I want SaS to be drilling them in how to form a human wall, eleven men in our penalty box the entire game, most boring derby of all time and come away with a point! A sports psychologist will be able to milk more positives out of that than if we go for it and they do us 7:0 or something.

We cannot be delusional here, they have pace right across the front line and will tear us to shreds if we allow them to. But if we nullify that pace by just blocking them out, they only have one player with the craft to break a tight defence,(Coutinho) and he isnt that great at it.

The others all rely on immense speed, so lets negate that, works our collective arses off, keep them out ( a la Man Utd) and break this run of hidings from them. I am not demonstrating an inferiority complex in saying this, i am being realistic. Our defence simply cannot cope with their front line at the moment, very few teams can!

 

[The Penalty Box Dancer]

I'd treat a point like a win seriously. They've just put 7 past Spartak Moscow! Have you seen our defence?

 

[No8Bally]

Best we can hope for is either a flukey 1-0 win , a 0-0. Failing that, just hope they declare at some stage and we avoid the follow-on.

 

[bluestevon]

I'd love to know what is giving these people so much confidence...

We are starting at a 2-0 defecit the way I see it. There is no possible way they don't score AT LEAST twice. Kenny, Williams and Martina are all turbo gash, if Holgate/Keane and most importantly Pickford don't come with the performance of their careers then we simply can't keep them out. That means we need goals, but from where? If they choke the space Rooney operates in how the hell are we gonna create anything...

As much as RS fans downplay this fixture, call us a small club etc. they always rise to the occasion as if their season depends on it. Not only are we the biggest bunch of bottlers in history, we have an utterly crap team now and for some reason some folks on here seem convinced that it boosts our chances of winning?

The last time the majority of the fanbase was utterly convinced we'd get bummed was towards the end of Martinez's reign, and we got thrashed 4 and it could have been 8. I don't think it will get that bad as i think we'll put up a defensive effort but they will almost certainly score twice. Would love to be proved wrong but pulling false positivity out of my arse is something I won't do.

Errrm what? How you reckon that mate, Kenny is far away from being a poor player, never mind what you call him here.

Maybe people have 'some' confidence because for starters we have a manager who knows how to set up in games like this, we also have a few players - new ones who won't go into the game feeling like it's an impossibility to beat them, because each have them has actually scored winners against these for other teams, Niasse, Sigurdsson, Rooney.

Maybe also because the rs defence is absolutely crap and has mistakes in it, they have an utter dog-turd back 4 and keeper

Will we win or get a draw - unlikely - but giving them a 2 goals given like you are is more embarrassing than anything.

Maybe also people have looked at their results after playing a CL game.

Chelsea (h) 1-1
Spurs (a) 4-1 loss
West Ham (a) 4-1 win
Newcastle (a) 1-1
Burnley (h) 1-1

in 15 games they have won 8, 5 draws 2 losses

record is 7 wins, 2 draws and 1 loss when it doesn't follow a CL tie 23 out of 30 points
record is 1 win 3 draws and 1 loss following a CL tie. 6 out of 15 points

So yeah their is evidence that right after a CL tie their form is massively effected (averaging less than half the points per game actually) - which gives maybe a bit of evidence that they find it very hard to get up to the levels for back to back games after a European performance.

 

[FTY]

3-0 Liverpool would be a miracle.

Their front 4 is gonna drag our defence all around the city for 90 minutes.

 

[Azzurri]

What derby?

 

[toffee-L]

Errrm what? How you reckon that mate, Kenny is far away from being a poor player, never mind what you call him here.

Maybe people have 'some' confidence because for starters we have a manager who knows how to set up in games like this, we also have a few players - new ones who won't go into the game feeling like it's an impossibility to beat them, because each have them has actually scored winners against these for other teams, Niasse, Sigurdsson, Rooney.

Maybe also because the rs defence is absolutely crap and has mistakes in it, they have an utter dog-turd back 4 and keeper

Will we win or get a draw - unlikely - but giving them a 2 goals given like you are is more embarrassing than anything.

Maybe also people have looked at their results after playing a CL game.

Chelsea (h) 1-1
Spurs (a) 4-1 loss
West Ham (a) 4-1 win
Newcastle (a) 1-1
Burnley (h) 1-1

in 15 games they have won 8, 5 draws 2 losses

record is 7 wins, 2 draws and 1 loss when it doesn't follow a CL tie 23 out of 30 points
record is 1 win 3 draws and 1 loss following a CL tie. 6 out of 15 points

So yeah their is evidence that right after a CL tie their form is massively effected (averaging less than half the points per game actually) - which gives maybe a bit of evidence that they find it very hard to get up to the levels for back to back games after a European performance.

Really we have a manager who knows how to set up for games like this? Here you are boldly predicting that you wouldn't be shocked if we fired him after 9 games.
https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/...th-sam-allardyce.100703/page-174#post-5962765
You also make several other comments in the Allardyce threads (rightly) pointing out how poor Allardyce's record is against the RS (before going on to give him more pelters and that you'd stay away from the club whilst he was in charge), so why now do you say he knows how to combat them? My above post actually alludes to the fact that I don't think we'll get thrashed, unlike some others on here (yet you call that embarrassing), but I strongly believe they will score twice so in order to at least not lose we have to do the same which I don't think we're capable of.

As for Kenny, the amount of stick DCL gets compared to him (despite offering far more to the team) is really annoying and people need to stop giving a pass for everything if they are gonna give young Dom both barrels. We tend to haemorrhage goals from his side, especially in the match against Arsenal where he got absolutely tortured. I would love for all youngsters we bring through to make it but he doesn't offer much going forward and is deemed defensively insufficient that he needs Lennon playing ahead of him. In the current circumstances I believe Holgate is the better option.

As for the European bit; they played at home in midweek, very cushy evening against a dross team who they filled their boots against which will only breath confidence. If that match against Spartak affects their form in the way that you think (hope) then they don't deserve to have gone through. That result should only bring confidence.

 

[dannyboy]

Once the first goes in we are going to absolutely cave. A lot of it will depend on how ruthless they are - potentially it could easily go exactly the same way as last night.

I know I said in the OP that Allardyce can organise a defence but that didn't stop his Sunderland side taking a hiding from us. I really wish this game wasn't happening.

 

[bluestevon]

Really we have a manager who knows how to set up for games like this? Here you are boldly predicting that you wouldn't be shocked if we fired him after 9 games.
https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/...th-sam-allardyce.100703/page-174#post-5962765
You also make several other comments in the Allardyce threads (rightly) pointing out how poor Allardyce's record is against the RS (before going on to give him more pelters and that you'd stay away from the club whilst he was in charge), so why now do you say he knows how to combat them? My above post actually alludes to the fact that I don't think we'll get thrashed, unlike some others on here (yet you call that embarrassing), but I strongly believe they will score twice so in order to at least not lose we have to do the same which I don't think we're capable of.

As for Kenny, the amount of stick DCL gets compared to him (despite offering far more to the team) is really annoying and people need to stop giving a pass for everything if they are gonna give young Dom both barrels. We tend to haemorrhage goals from his side, especially in the match against Arsenal where he got absolutely tortured. I would love for all youngsters we bring through to make it but he doesn't offer much going forward and is deemed defensively insufficient that he needs Lennon playing ahead of him. In the current circumstances I believe Holgate is the better option.

As for the European bit; they played at home in midweek, very cushy evening against a dross team who they filled their boots against which will only breath confidence. If that match against Spartak affects their form in the way that you think (hope) then they don't deserve to have gone through. That result should only bring confidence.

Liverpool fans are now stating that they can beat anyone in the world and don't fear anyone in the CL (despite failing to win half their CL group games including not winning vs the only decent team in their group in Seville), they are also talking about how they can add players to their team in January - the missing pieces for this seasons title challenge (despite being 14 behind City after 15 games).

They are deluded


Kenny you obviously don't rate, yet i find it kind of ironic that you use DCL getting abuse off some people as vindication for you to tear into another young player... as for your rating of him - stats show he is far from poor defensively or attacking wise, eyes would show you that he is actually a very talented young player who has now started to settle after stepping up with the team in awful form.

My opinions pre hiring Allardyce are influenced by absolutely detesting him as a person and what he stands for mate, now he's here - he has to be analysed in what he does not what i think of him as a person, he knows how to play against teams like this Liverpool side - evidence he beat them last season with Palace at the pit, he beat them with Sunderland the year before - both sides managed by Klopp and containing largely a group of players much inferior to our side. He knows how to organise a team to sit and absorb pressure and deny a team space - much like Dyche did (Burnely drew this season at the pit) much like Mourinho does (they also drew at the pit) much like Benitez did - they also managed to draw this season vs Liverpool.

As for their record after European games you seem to be ignoring the actual stats and just stating that a 7-0 win can't see them gain anything other than massive confidence and improve them, they beat Maribor 7-0 away on a Tuesday and then went and absolutely stank the place out against Spurs and lost 4-1 at a ground they traditionally do very well at.

As i said, yes it is unlikely we get a result due to them being better than us, but seen a period they where a mile better than us in the 90's and they couldn't win a derby against us, football is cyclical, and all runs come to an end eventually, need proof of that, eventually our record against City will probably change away from the ridiculously good one it's been for ten plus years.

 

[MikeH72]

We’re going to win this.

Their good run stops here.

Niassé with the winner.

Your blind positivity is not going to change a thing about how this will pan out.

 

[Groucho]

If we get on the scoresheet I believe we can get a draw at least.

If we score first

 

[zzebra]

Don't they always say that the form-book goes out of the window for the Derby game?

 

[marsh]

What derby?

The Manchester one!

 

[FTY]

We'll get smashed, but I'd play 5-3-2

Kenny, Holgate, Williams, Keane, and Martina sitting as deep as they can, no space for their wide men because if we give them 2 a yard they'll punish us

Gueye and Rooney in front of them, get them all over Coutinho from the first minute because he's the only one they've got who can create from the middle. Sigurdsson as the attacking mid trying to launch counters for the strikers

Then Niasse and DCL, reckon them 2 can cause Klavan and Lovren problems because they'll both chase the ball all game, who knows they might get lucky and find themselves 1v1

Bit of a joke that I wasn't considered for the managers job really

 

[marsh]

I'd treat a point like a win seriously. They've just put 7 past Spartak Moscow! Have you seen our defence?

I'm the opposite I'd treat a point like a loss. We can't let this run there continue plus draws do my head in