Current Affairs LGBTQ Good Religion Bad - discuss

[Runub]

I understand the need for these initiatives but it’s a bit off that Guehi and Morsy are now big news stories for following their beliefs whilst doing their job. If you do not wish to openly support an initiative it doesn’t necessarily mean you are wrong

 

[Efcjake]

I understand the need for these initiatives but it’s a bit off that Guehi and Morsy are now big news stories for following their beliefs whilst doing their job. If you do not wish to openly support an initiative it doesn’t necessarily mean you are wrong

It's really reductive to suggest they're only in the new for following their beliefs. I don't think not wearing an armband and defacing it with your own message rejecting the intent of armband are the same thing either and that's a false comparison. I know the papers are jumping on that angle and lumping it all in together because it gets people on both sides upset and drives up engagement.

What Guehi did was worse. Defacing the armband is blatantly disrespectful of the campaign. Not wearing it is just showing you don't support it which I think most people can acknowledge is a right of the individual even if they disagree with the choice.

It isn't antagonistic to choose not to participate. I can accept someone saying I don't want to wear that, it doesn't align with my religious beliefs. I know there is a section of society, especially online that will attack people for that choice alone but I disagree with that.

 

[Kurt.]

I love all these comments about “I’m not bothered.. but”

 

[Kurt.]

Honestly, if we win tonight I want us wearing rainbow socks in the derby

 

[Runub]

It's really reductive to suggest they're only in the new for following their beliefs. I don't think not wearing an armband and defacing it with your own message rejecting the intent of armband are the same thing either and that's a false comparison. I know the papers are jumping on that angle and lumping it all in together because it gets people on both sides upset and drives up engagement.

What Guehi did was worse. Defacing the armband is blatantly disrespectful of the campaign. Not wearing it is just showing you don't support it which I think most people can acknowledge is a right of the individual even if they disagree with the choice.

It isn't antagonistic to choose not to participate. I can accept someone saying I don't want to wear that, it doesn't align with my religious beliefs. I know there is a section of society, especially online that will attack people for that choice alone but I disagree with that.

Yes I agree with that. Another things is why didn’t the clubs just make someone else captain if the player didn’t want take part in the initiative. Anyway, I suppose there is no easy answer to these issues and getting them highlighted, even sometimes negatively, shines a light on the issues

 

[Bluerover]

With you so far.




What are the unintended consequences wearing a rainbow armband symbol can lead to pal?

"It's the war on Christmas" now.... alright. I'm just going to ignore that nonsense.


You are correct to say "Intolerance is wrong, but intolerance of someone who for personal reasons opts out of a particular initiative is equally wrong." I think that's fair. I do think that categorizing what Guehi did as "intolerance of someone who for personal reasons opts out of a particular initiative" is sweeping the act of replacing the armband's message with his own about his religious views under the rug. The Ipswich captain didn't want to wear it, just like Gana didn't want to wear any of the rainbow PSG stuff, fair enough I don't like their intolerance but I don't think criticism is the way forward.

I do, however, think it is fair to have a go at Guehi for the act of disrespecting and defacing the armband, regardless of what he wrote on the armband I find the act of doing that and trying to take over the message the armband was trying to send to be a move of very poor taste. There are plenty of times and opportunities afforded to Guehi to communicate his love of Jesus, writing over the rainbow armband is a very disrespectful way to do it and he should be called out for that.

Fair points. I never actually mentioned Guehi, my main point is intolerance of people's views because they don't fit with certain people's views on how society should behave.

I tolerate people having the right to their opinions provided, as I posted earlier, they do not harm or incite/cause violence to others.

If wearing the rainbow armband is optional then fair enough. If however someone is to be castigated, embarrassed or even suffer punishment because they have certain views that don't fit in with the 'right crowd', then that is unacceptable.

My Christian beliefs are tolerant of all, otherwise I am betraying the core message which is to love one's neighbour as oneself.

I would like if others would show the same respect to Christians and genuine believers of other faiths who peacefully disagree with what these others are trying to force them to accept.

 

[Bluerover]

It's really reductive to suggest they're only in the new for following their beliefs. I don't think not wearing an armband and defacing it with your own message rejecting the intent of armband are the same thing either and that's a false comparison. I know the papers are jumping on that angle and lumping it all in together because it gets people on both sides upset and drives up engagement.

What Guehi did was worse. Defacing the armband is blatantly disrespectful of the campaign. Not wearing it is just showing you don't support it which I think most people can acknowledge is a right of the individual even if they disagree with the choice.

It isn't antagonistic to choose not to participate. I can accept someone saying I don't want to wear that, it doesn't align with my religious beliefs. I know there is a section of society, especially online that will attack people for that choice alone but I disagree with that.

If you think that there are no LGBTQO+ people who 'love Jesus' you might want to do a bit more research by getting to know actual Christians from that section of our society. including openly gay clergy.

'Defacing' with a message of love for a man who taught that we must love our neighbour as ourselves????????

Yeah, right on.

 

[Efcjake]

Fair points. I never actually mentioned Guehi, my main point is intolerance of people's views because they don't fit with certain people's views on how society should behave.

I tolerate people having the right to their opinions provided, as I posted earlier, they do not harm or incite/cause violence to others.

If wearing the rainbow armband is optional then fair enough. If however someone is to be castigated, embarrassed or even suffer punishment because they have certain views that don't fit in with the 'right crowd', then that is unacceptable.

My Christian beliefs are tolerant of all, otherwise I am betraying the core message which is to love one's neighbour as oneself.

I would like if others would show the same respect to Christians and genuine believers of other faiths who peacefully disagree with what these others are trying to force them to accept.

I think you can see how writing a Christian message over an armband meant to symbolize a message of acceptance and tolerance might give people the impression that what Guehi was actually doing was taking a specific action to express how own personal intolerance?

This message and campaign specifically exists to promote tolerance and acceptance and to show the LGBTQ community they are welcome in football because they have historically been discriminated and in some case violently prevented from participating in the support whether as a player or supporter. I don't think the Christian community can lay claim to that level of discrimination and intolerance, either today or historically. Perhaps the Christian community needs to show the LGBTQ community the respect and tolerance you're asking for and a start with that would be not writing messages over symbols of their campaign.

 

[Efcjake]

If you think that there are no LGBTQO+ people who 'love Jesus' you might want to do a bit more research by getting to know actual Christians from that section of our society. including openly gay clergy.

'Defacing' with a message of love for a man who taught that we must love our neighbour as ourselves????????

Yeah, right on.

Oh do you reckon that was the spirit and intent behind Guehi choosing to write on the rainbow armband? To promote cultural and religious acceptance for Christian observing LGBTQ members?

It's defacing a symbol with his own message and is disrespectful regardless of what it said.

 

[Bluerover]

I think you can see how writing a Christian message over an armband meant to symbolize a message of acceptance and tolerance might give people the impression that what Guehi was actually doing was taking a specific action to express how own personal intolerance?

This message and campaign specifically exists to promote tolerance and acceptance and to show the LGBTQ community they are welcome in football because they have historically been discriminated and in some case violently prevented from participating in the support whether as a player or supporter. I don't think the Christian community can lay claim to that level of discrimination and intolerance, either today or historically. Perhaps the Christian community needs to show the LGBTQ community the respect and tolerance you're asking for and a start with that would be not writing messages over symbols of their campaign.

Ok but to describe what he did as defacing is quite insulting to Gay Christians.

 

[Efcjake]

Ok but to describe what he did as defacing is quite insulting to Gay Christians.

It isn't at all.

You can claim it is but unless you can justify that he was writing his message on the rainbow armband for that reason I'm going to call it bollocks.

Why has he never written his profession of love on a regular black armband? Get in the bin with this.

 

[Bluerover]

Oh do you reckon that was the spirit and intent behind Guehi choosing to write on the rainbow armband? To promote cultural and religious acceptance for Christian observing LGBTQ members?

It's defacing a symbol with his own message and is disrespectful regardless of what it said.

I have no idea what his spirit and intent was, but I know active gay Christians for years who would not be offended by the message.

I can't see into the man's mind and heart to attempt to ascribe some ulterior motive.

 

[Bluerover]

It isn't at all.

You can claim it is but unless you can justify that he was writing his message on the rainbow armband for that reason I'm going to call it bollocks.

Why has he never written his profession of love on a regular black armband? Get in the bin with this.

Thanks for your tolerance.

 

[Efcjake]

Thanks for your tolerance.

Is it not a fair question to ask why he waited to write his message on a rainbow armband?

You want to give him the benefit of the doubt that he was sharing a message of tolerance for the Christian LGBTQ community. You have literally no evidence for that.

The facts are simple. He wrote it on a rainbow armband and has never written it on his regular armband. You can draw you own conclusion and I will draw mine.

 

[Xizor]

Ah, one of those Christians, that just loves to feel persecuted, to the extent they just invent "liberals forcing an agenda" and "certain people banning cribs and saying Christmas" out of nowhere.