Current Affairs LGBTQ Good Religion Bad - discuss

[Sean Ashley]

It is not necessarily about condemning same sex relationships. People should not be forced to parade symbols of something just because trendy 'right ons' decide so.

I have a number of friends who are gay, and was delighted to be invited to one couple's wedding which was really enjoyable. But I know that none of these friends expect me to go around publicly wearing symbols that actively campaign for LGBTQ+.

Our friendship is more than enough.

The liberals who are forcing this are proving again to be the most intolerant people in society. They don't just think they know what is right they also KNOW what everyone must think, believe and do.

Failure to comply with their agenda will lead to ridicule at best or downright persecution in some cases.

The game itself still has issues when it comes to inclusivity in many aspects.

That is why I disagreed yesterday with the issue being treated as solely a religious one. As it doesn't actually show the full story.

Until the game creates an environment comfortable enough for gay men to come out or for black players to have a pathway for management, then these initiatives or campaigns are the only thing that will keep the pressure on FA, and the football circle to try and keep a spotlight on these issues

 

[GrandOldTeam]

The game itself still has issues when it comes to inclusivity in many aspects.

That is why I disagreed yesterday with the issue being treated as solely a religious one. As it doesn't actually show the full story.

Until the game creates an environment comfortable enough for gay men to come out or for black players to have a pathway for management, then these initiatives or campaigns are the only thing that will keep the pressure on FA, and the football circle to try and keep a spotlight on these issues

I didn't say it was solely religion, but clearly, the subject includes that discussion.

Besides, didn't you excuse Gana for refusing to wear a rainbow because he was Muslim/his religion?

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

It's a week long campaign to try and make something visible within the PL on the pitch. The PL does not have any current active LGBTQ+ players or managers. There are many active and visible players and managers of different faiths, nationalities and races. They are visible. If wearing a different type of armband for a week is so difficult to do to try and show solidarity and support of a marginalised community in society and the football space is so difficult then it says a lot more about you as a person than it does of those asking you to do so.

The only thing we know for sure is the PL does not have any openly current active LGBTQ+ players or managers.

Statistics would say it's likely there is at least one today. Or at least one that has played in the last few years

 

[ToffeeScot]

The only thing we know for sure is the PL does not have any openly current active LGBTQ+ players or managers.

Statistics would say it's likely there is at least one today. Or at least one that has played in the last few years

Yes, you're right and that's what I meant in my post. Can't edit it unfortunately.

 

[Bluerover]

The bit in bold is obviously a very sensible and obvious comment, that I wholeheartedly agree with, nobody should expect every person to be a 'trendy right on', as you put it. The rest is a little bit nonsensical.

Unfortunately, we live in a society where people need to be reminded that everybody is equal, and everybody has a right to be treated as an equal.

If you are against this very quick and small reminder, you have to be pretty stupid to not expect varying degrees of backlash for your opinions and/or actions.

I wasn't seeking reaction necessarily, and as for a 'backlash' I actually tolerate other people's opinions as long as they don't do harm or incite violence.

Liberals do not have a good record in this country as for example their insistence on laissez-faire at all costs led to millions dying of starvation, But of course they knew what was right.

The liberal Green Party insisted on a Carbon Tax in the last Government leading to thousands of people, particularly elderly and infirm, being unable to heat their homes. This I know from experience. They lost 11 out of their 12 seats in the recent election as a result. I have years of experience of working in the area of Climate Change, and I know it is a reality and we need to do something. Hammering vulnerable people with a Carbon Tax without putting in place proper supports for them to convert to alternative and sustainable forms of heating, is crass arrogance. It smacks of 'let them eat cake'.

I am not against the gesture re the armbands - where did you get that idea from? If I was young enough to be still playing and my club asked me to wear one, I probably would do so. But I am very much against people being harassed because they exercise their free will not to participate.

As for the abusive posts - not yours - I will simply say quod erat demonstrandum.

How very dare I defend the right of anyone to have an opinion of their own and not to join the people who KNOW what we all should do. Clearly something wrong with me.

 

[Sean Ashley]

I didn't say it was solely religion, but clearly, the subject includes that discussion.

Besides, didn't you excuse Gana for refusing to wear a rainbow because he was Muslim/his religion?

Yes, I don't think these guys are bad people, and I've mentioned multiple times I am or have been in relationships with Muslims and Hindus. So understand full well how religion and sexuality intertwines and the battle against each other. And see the impact it has on their lives as a consequence.

But that doesn't negate the fact these campaigns and attempts to increase inclusivity should not be mistreated because of ones beliefs.

As one poster put it nicely it earlier, but I will add a little that if you are a group that faces marginalisation due to religion or their ethic background, then trying to oppress another's freedom isn't the best way of getting others to show support to you or your cause. It is all about being tolerant to each other.

 

[wandyr79]

I wasn't seeking reaction necessarily, and as for a 'backlash' I actually tolerate other people's opinions as long as they don't do harm or incite violence.

Liberals do not have a good record in this country as for example their insistence on laissez-faire at all costs led to millions dying of starvation, But of course they knew what was right.

The liberal Green Party insisted on a Carbon Tax in the last Government leading to thousands of people, particularly elderly and infirm, being unable to heat their homes. This I know from experience. They lost 11 out of their 12 seats in the recent election as a result. I have years of experience of working in the area of Climate Change, and I know it is a reality and we need to do something. Hammering vulnerable people with a Carbon Tax without putting in place proper supports for them to convert to alternative and sustainable forms of heating, is crass arrogance. It smacks of 'let them eat cake'.

I am not against the gesture re the armbands - where did you get that idea from? If I was young enough to be still playing and my club asked me to wear one, I probably would do so. But I am very much against people being harassed because they exercise their free will not to participate.

As for the abusive posts - not yours - I will simply say quod erat demonstrandum.

How very dare I defend the right of anyone to have an opinion of their own and not to join the people who KNOW what we all should do. Clearly something wrong with me.

I think that in this specific scenario, people have a right to be upset about somebody, in the public eye, being outright against inclusivity in their own workplace.

People who are upset will lash out, this is nature. Again, if you are going to behave in this manner then expect some backlash. Some of it more vitriolic than others. Some of these liberals you speak of will be more disappointed than angry. This is not aimed at you but the actual player or anybody who uses their religion to discriminate against people.

The Premier League/FA said that it was optional, nobody is forcing it, but what this player did was use it to antagonise people, they knew exactly what would come their way. Just don't wear it, I don't really stay in touch with all the news outlets, to be honest hardly any of them, but was the Ipswich captain not wearing it at all publicised as much as writing 'I love Jesus' on it?

If not then, we have an answer. Have your opinion, but don't antagonise people with it. I apply that to both sides. Don't force people to wear them, as far as I am aware that is not happening in this scenario and if you don't agree with the sentiment of wearing it then don't.

 

[Sean Ashley]

Also in Islamic (Muslim) law gambling is forbidden so gana very happy to show off his shirt with a betting sponsor goes against footballers doing it just for religious purposes

 

[Bluerover]

The only thing we know for sure is the PL does not have any openly current active LGBTQ+ players or managers.

Statistics would say it's likely there is at least one today. Or at least one that has played in the last few years

Statistically, depending on who one listens to, probably 10% of the population is LGBTO+, and I know that in Ladies' football there are many who are, thankfully, quite comfortable with declaring that they are gay - 12% in last year's World Cup for example.

Record number of out-LGBTQ+ athletes will compete in 2023 FIFA Women’s World Cup

A record number of out LGBTQ+ players will compete in the 2023 FIFA Women’s World Cup in Australia and New Zealand.

www.thepinknews.com

The men are much less likely to be open, and I agree we should support creation of an atmosphere in male football, where men are not afraid to be open.

This does not mean forcing people to wear symbols if they don't want to. In fact such actions can lead to unintended consequences, and get people's backs up.

As we approach Christmas we will have certain people campaigning for no Christmas cribs in public places and to wish Happy Holiday rather than Christmas.

Regarding the Thread title, I believe that one's religion should be welcoming, regardless of who or what you are.

Intolerance is wrong, but intolerance of someone who for personal reasons opts out of a particular initiative is equally wrong.

I sang in a Cathedral choir for some 12 or 13 years and at least four male members plus the conductor were openly gay. I attended his wedding.

In November, most of the choir and congregation wear poppies, but some opt out for personal reasons. They were not attacked, criticised or abused, but their decision was respected.

 

[Walken]

I wasn't seeking reaction necessarily, and as for a 'backlash' I actually tolerate other people's opinions as long as they don't do harm or incite violence.

Liberals do not have a good record in this country as for example their insistence on laissez-faire at all costs led to millions dying of starvation, But of course they knew what was right.

The liberal Green Party insisted on a Carbon Tax in the last Government leading to thousands of people, particularly elderly and infirm, being unable to heat their homes. This I know from experience. They lost 11 out of their 12 seats in the recent election as a result. I have years of experience of working in the area of Climate Change, and I know it is a reality and we need to do something. Hammering vulnerable people with a Carbon Tax without putting in place proper supports for them to convert to alternative and sustainable forms of heating, is crass arrogance. It smacks of 'let them eat cake'.

I am not against the gesture re the armbands - where did you get that idea from? If I was young enough to be still playing and my club asked me to wear one, I probably would do so. But I am very much against people being harassed because they exercise their free will not to participate.

As for the abusive posts - not yours - I will simply say quod erat demonstrandum.

How very dare I defend the right of anyone to have an opinion of their own and not to join the people who KNOW what we all should do. Clearly something wrong with me.

Shifting to a pro pollution view point to back up your drivel, sweet.

 

[LostLegend]

As we approach Christmas we will have certain people campaigning for no Christmas cribs in public places and to wish Happy Holiday rather than Christmas.

Ah, the old war on Christmas nonsense.

This isn't actually happening anywhere, it's a tired right-wing grifters trope.

 

[Walken]

Ah, the old war on Christmas nonsense.

This isn't actually happening anywhere, it's a tired right-wing grifters trope.

Just out and out bs right wing talking points with these clowns. Equality is apparently already achieved and those who campaign for it are intolerant do gooders. Much more important that we moan about imaginary anti-christmas organisations instead.

 

[Jimishorts]

This isn't actually happening anywhere

 

[Xizor]

Ah, the old war on Christmas nonsense.

 

[wandyr79]

Ah, the old war on Christmas nonsense.

This isn't actually happening anywhere, it's a tired right-wing grifters trope.

What I find hilarious about the 'How dare people say Happy Holidays' crowd is that Holiday is derived from 'Holy Day'.

They don't realise that the imaginary people who 'refuse' to say Christmas and are forcing that down peoples throats are actually being just as religious as the 'We must say Christmas' crowd, if not more religious.