2018/19 Kieran Dowell

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....not sure who over-hype Dowell. I’ve watched him a fair bit coming through and he’s a smashing player, but you never know about these youngsters until they are tested in open-age football. Folk concentrate on his shooting, but he is capable of playing the most subtle passes behind the opposition back four.

Dowell has already made it. He’ll be a very wealthy young man who will have a career in the game, it’s just a matter of where he’ll play. He was a hit at Forest, seemingly less so at Sheffield United. He’ll find a team and a level that his game suits. He has talent.

I will always think it a shame he was sent to Forest at a time we were really struggling for creativity and goals. Coleman was injured, Kenny was playing and I thought Dowell was a better option than Lennon. Walsh/Koeman decided to send him on loan.

These lads have to grasp their chance when it comes at Everton, however limited those opportunities are. Dowell failed to do that and I suspect his ship has sailed at Everton.

I was thinking about Dowell the other day. He hasn't played much, but you really have to see the wider context. Sheffield United were in the hunt for the PL, which is worth £100 million + to a team which is always going to take priority. It can and would transform Sheffield United even if they came up for one season and went down. There was a lot of talk about how the championship will become (in time) a two tier league between those who had had PL money and those who hadn't, with the former consistently competing for the PL.

You then factor in Woodburn went back having completely flopped (more so than Dowell) and they needed another squad player. Powell fits the mould quite well. Maybe they hoped an opening would come, or injuries etc, but the team got into a rhythm without him and he filled in. He had some good games and some underwhelming ones. However the idea that a championship team is going to rip up their side to give a PL loanee a central role is a bit fanciful for me.

Anyway my wider point is I wouldn't be surprised if they look tomato the Dowell deal permanent. Everything you here form the manager is they seem happy with him. If they were too, for Dowell it would be a fantastic opportunity. Likely a 4 year deal, a contract on what, 20k possibly 30k per week with bonuses. The lad is made for life. If he impresses and gets another deal, his kids are made for life (as and when he has them).

He will go down as a failure for Everton but we will make a tidy profit on him (probably enough to keep the entire academy running for 2/3/4 years) plus a sell on fee. I think quite quickly for players the dream of playing for Everton is soon gone when the reality of a career earning the sorts of rewards described above is one end of the spectrum and the other is playing none league football for a couple of hundred quid a week and having to find another career.

That's what I find interesting about the whole thing. I looked at some of his contemporaries who looked similarly as promising as Dowell. Michael Donuhue is struggling to get a game for FC United. Della Brewster is at Cnference north level. Once you hit the early 20's and the PL youth contracts run out it can be a very sharp fall from grace, even for very promising players.

Who knows, maybe Dowell comes back and surprises us all. I'd be delighted if so. I felt this summer was probably last chance saloon for him and he didn't really make the impression needed on Silva. It's a shame, but a move to Sheffield United is a pretty good outcome all things considered when it will be branded a failure.
 

He’s not good enough but he’s better than Davies who apparently is good enough.

Me head has bailed it.
 
I was thinking about Dowell the other day. He hasn't played much, but you really have to see the wider context. Sheffield United were in the hunt for the PL, which is worth £100 million + to a team which is always going to take priority. It can and would transform Sheffield United even if they came up for one season and went down. There was a lot of talk about how the championship will become (in time) a two tier league between those who had had PL money and those who hadn't, with the former consistently competing for the PL.

You then factor in Woodburn went back having completely flopped (more so than Dowell) and they needed another squad player. Powell fits the mould quite well. Maybe they hoped an opening would come, or injuries etc, but the team got into a rhythm without him and he filled in. He had some good games and some underwhelming ones. However the idea that a championship team is going to rip up their side to give a PL loanee a central role is a bit fanciful for me.

Anyway my wider point is I wouldn't be surprised if they look tomato the Dowell deal permanent. Everything you here form the manager is they seem happy with him. If they were too, for Dowell it would be a fantastic opportunity. Likely a 4 year deal, a contract on what, 20k possibly 30k per week with bonuses. The lad is made for life. If he impresses and gets another deal, his kids are made for life (as and when he has them).

He will go down as a failure for Everton but we will make a tidy profit on him (probably enough to keep the entire academy running for 2/3/4 years) plus a sell on fee. I think quite quickly for players the dream of playing for Everton is soon gone when the reality of a career earning the sorts of rewards described above is one end of the spectrum and the other is playing none league football for a couple of hundred quid a week and having to find another career.

That's what I find interesting about the whole thing. I looked at some of his contemporaries who looked similarly as promising as Dowell. Michael Donuhue is struggling to get a game for FC United. Della Brewster is at Cnference north level. Once you hit the early 20's and the PL youth contracts run out it can be a very sharp fall from grace, even for very promising players.

Who knows, maybe Dowell comes back and surprises us all. I'd be delighted if so. I felt this summer was probably last chance saloon for him and he didn't really make the impression needed on Silva. It's a shame, but a move to Sheffield United is a pretty good outcome all things considered when it will be branded a failure.

Some good observations mate. Also my favourite use of the word tomato I have seen on a forum.
 

I was thinking about Dowell the other day. He hasn't played much, but you really have to see the wider context. Sheffield United were in the hunt for the PL, which is worth £100 million + to a team which is always going to take priority. It can and would transform Sheffield United even if they came up for one season and went down. There was a lot of talk about how the championship will become (in time) a two tier league between those who had had PL money and those who hadn't, with the former consistently competing for the PL.

You then factor in Woodburn went back having completely flopped (more so than Dowell) and they needed another squad player. Powell fits the mould quite well. Maybe they hoped an opening would come, or injuries etc, but the team got into a rhythm without him and he filled in. He had some good games and some underwhelming ones. However the idea that a championship team is going to rip up their side to give a PL loanee a central role is a bit fanciful for me.

Anyway my wider point is I wouldn't be surprised if they look tomato the Dowell deal permanent. Everything you here form the manager is they seem happy with him. If they were too, for Dowell it would be a fantastic opportunity. Likely a 4 year deal, a contract on what, 20k possibly 30k per week with bonuses. The lad is made for life. If he impresses and gets another deal, his kids are made for life (as and when he has them).

He will go down as a failure for Everton but we will make a tidy profit on him (probably enough to keep the entire academy running for 2/3/4 years) plus a sell on fee. I think quite quickly for players the dream of playing for Everton is soon gone when the reality of a career earning the sorts of rewards described above is one end of the spectrum and the other is playing none league football for a couple of hundred quid a week and having to find another career.

That's what I find interesting about the whole thing. I looked at some of his contemporaries who looked similarly as promising as Dowell. Michael Donuhue is struggling to get a game for FC United. Della Brewster is at Cnference north level. Once you hit the early 20's and the PL youth contracts run out it can be a very sharp fall from grace, even for very promising players.

Who knows, maybe Dowell comes back and surprises us all. I'd be delighted if so. I felt this summer was probably last chance saloon for him and he didn't really make the impression needed on Silva. It's a shame, but a move to Sheffield United is a pretty good outcome all things considered when it will be branded a failure.

I'd love to track the U20 World Cup Winners of 2017, in which of course we had DCL, Kenny, Dowell, Lookman and Connolly...would be good to see how they are doing in 5 years
 
I'd love to track the U20 World Cup Winners of 2017, in which of course we had DCL, Kenny, Dowell, Lookman and Connolly...would be good to see how they are doing in 5 years

Why not do it in reverse.

The U20 2013 World Cup squad.

We had 5 players, 2 are premier league players, 2 defo arent and 1 might be next season.

englerland.webp
 
Why not do it in reverse.

The U20 2013 World Cup squad.

We had 5 players, 2 are premier league players, 2 defo arent and 1 might be next season.

Who are you saying might be next year?
Interesting this, tracking youth players - not many of them really make it to the top do they?
Out of this, Harry Kane is the only real international player, Barkley, Dier and Stones are all on the fringes


View attachment 57700
 

I didn't realise how low the 'conversion rate' is to Premier League ..most youth internationals are in lower leagues aren't they. Dowell looks like he's going to be blokcked by Siggy, maybe Vlasic too

In fairness that group of players failed to make it out of the group, so it could be said they werent a good batch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_FIFA_U-20_World_Cup

The final was France v Uruguay.

franced.webp



Few names stand out in the French squad.
 
I didn't realise how low the 'conversion rate' is to Premier League ..most youth internationals are in lower leagues aren't they. Dowell looks like he's going to be blokcked by Siggy, maybe Vlasic too

It’s telling that the ones that made it did it at clubs who were outside the CL places at the time, there is an argument to be made about opportunity and wasted talent at the CL clubs.

Unfortunately the standard of football journalist is populist and low brow in the main, there is an interesting analysis there.
 
It’s telling that the ones that made it did it at clubs who were outside the CL places at the time, there is an argument to be made about opportunity and wasted talent at the CL clubs.

Unfortunately the standard of football journalist is populist and low brow in the main, there is an interesting analysis there.

Also right
The standard of football journalist is another story altogether - low brow to the extend of just putting together tweets and Instagram posts. horrible
 
In fairness that group of players failed to make it out of the group, so it could be said they werent a good batch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_FIFA_U-20_World_Cup

The final was France v Uruguay.

View attachment 57702


Few names stand out in the French squad.

Yeah that's true. I think now - since the last 5 years - we could expect better 'conversion' after St George's Park and the strategy, copying the French academy and the German model etc. We might see better results in the future
 

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