2018/19 Kieran Dowell

[Sharpattack]

The new Michael Branch

 

[Frang]

The new Michael Branch

didn't realise branchy won an under 21 World Cup

 

[Sharpattack]

didn't realise branchy won an under 21 World Cup

Stéphane Guivarc'h won a World Cup medal with France. How did you rate him as a striker?

 

[Frang]

Stéphane Guivarc'h won a World Cup medal with France. How did you rate him as a striker?

stupendous mate

 

[SiEdmo]

Don't take it personally, there's no 'of course' about it, I don't know who you are do I? You might be a 22 year old from Canada for all I know, in which case you won't ever have seen a teenage Rooney on the pitch.

Anyone who couldn't immediately see that Rooney was a very special talent wasn't paying attention. He looked absolutely incredible at 16, and to suggest he just scored a couple of screamers and nothing else is just ludicrous. He was outrageously gifted and it showed every time he got the ball. That's why I assumed you'd never seen him play, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you could spot talent if you saw it, but if you're saying I was wrong that's fine.

fair points, as I said @Brisan123 I just don't wanna write dowell off as there is something there

 

[Philw]

I never said he’s not good enough for the Prem I said I don’t think he will get onto an Everton team that wants top 4
He would probably walk into a Brighton , Palace , Burnley side and have a good career in the PL but is he top 4 quality
I hope he becomes that good but I don’t see it YET

Tbh, I wasn't thinking of you when I posted that, but fair enough on the second bit.

That's not what people are saying though is it? In fact, it's not even close to being what people are saying.

The conversation about Rooney has related to whether Dowell is a truly outstanding talent, not whether he's good enough to play in the Premier League. My opinion is that he's not a truly outstanding talent, but he definitely has ability, and if he can learn to harness it and work on his weaknesses, he can certainly be a very good player. My slight concern is that at 21 he doesn't seem to be much closer to becoming a more rounded player than he was when he made his Everton debut four years ago, and so may be running out of time in which to make an impact with us. Hopefully that isn't the case.

In my opinion dowell also looks short of that really top level of players, so I think he needs to work very hard on his weaknesses to make sure he can have a career at PL level, because I don’t think he’s good enough to be carried on the basis of his ball skills.

Sounds pretty close to me!!

 

[SiEdmo]

That's not what people are saying though is it? In fact, it's not even close to being what people are saying.

The conversation about Rooney has related to whether Dowell is a truly outstanding talent, not whether he's good enough to play in the Premier League. My opinion is that he's not a truly outstanding talent, but he definitely has ability, and if he can learn to harness it and work on his weaknesses, he can certainly be a very good player. My slight concern is that at 21 he doesn't seem to be much closer to becoming a more rounded player than he was when he made his Everton debut four years ago, and so may be running out of time in which to make an impact with us. Hopefully that isn't the case.

he has spent a bit of that time filling out to be fair to him, I said before when he first came in he was like a wet towel (haha Kieran 'Wet' T(d)owell)

I do think its easier to see when they are men to begin with like rooney was

I think if he gets to 23 and is in the same position then hes done for

 

[Lanolin]

Tbh, I wasn't thinking of you when I posted that, but fair enough on the second bit.





Sounds pretty close to me!!

You think saying a player needs to work hard to ensure they can have a career at the top level is pretty close to writing someone off because they're not as good as Rooney? Your reading's even worse than your scouting mate.

 

[Brisan123]

fair points, as I said @Brisan123 I just don't wanna write dowell off as there is something there

Either do I
But whatever is there he hasn’t shown it enough to get a first team spot

 

[Barnfred 55]

Re the bold part, I wonder if there are a bunch of bed wetters on Man City forums baying for him to be sold

It wouldn't surprise me mate. I exchanged a few posts with one of the Leicester regulars on here and he was saying that the likes of Chilwell and Demarai Gray get incredible stick on their forums, and they are, without doubt, two of the better young players in the premier. I think fans tend to see the best in other teams young players and the worst in their own.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Has a good left foot and a decent eye for a pass but he just doesn't do enough for me. His languid style just makes me think he might not have the hunger and personality to make it really. Of course i don't know him personally so I might be chatting wham but that's the impression I get when I watch him play.Would love to be wrong about the Ormskirk Ozil like.

For me, it's his languid style that gives the impression that he doesn't have the hunger, rather than proves he doesn't have the hunger, which is what I think you are saying.

Doesn't change the fact that the biggest challenge with him is how to get him more involved in games. At the moment it's fair to say he doesn't get involved enough, and he doesn't give you enough special moments to justify the long periods where the game can pass him by. I certainly don't think it's an attitude or work ethic issue though. Or a hunger issue for that matter.

 

[Parker]

For me, it's his languid style that gives the impression that he doesn't have the hunger, rather than proves he doesn't have the hunger, which is what I think you are saying.

Doesn't change the fact that the biggest challenge with him is how to get him more involved in games. At the moment it's fair to say he doesn't get involved enough, and he doesn't give you enough special moments to justify the long periods where the game can pass him by. I certainly don't think it's an attitude or work ethic issue though. Or a hunger issue for that matter.

As this is a transition season, so to speak, I'd like to see him start some premier league games as this is the only real way we'll know. Give him a run of 3 games or so where he starts and we can see what he can do. Clever players will naturally get better as they learn the game of the players around them and vice versa so hopefully he'll show more glimpses. No doubting his technical ability though.

 

[RobC]

Another player vastly overrated, not the first and certainly won't be the last.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

When Rooney hit our first team the vast majority of players commentators and fans knew we had something extra special on our hands

Think if I remember correctly the only concern was his temperament at times, and of course as its Britain, whether he could cope with stardom and all the trappings that were coming his way being from working class background and all.


Dowell is not a Rooney, not even a distant relative.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Well, Philw, if you think that's enough, just carry on thinking like that, it will never do for me, we all see games differently
and lots of us think differently, I bet we all want the same thing for Dowell: a successful career with Everton.

I know you've not come back on my reply to your post yesterday.

I still think you're being hard on Dowell based on Tuesday's U21 game. I'm not sure if you watched the whole game, focusing purely on Kieran's performance, as I did. But he clearly was given a remit by the manager for that game and he was incredibly disciplined in sticking to it. His work without the ball was very good as regards covering for full backs, closing down space in the midfield and making himself available, especially when the ball went out to the wide areas. In possession, on the whole he kept it simple but moved the ball on very quickly and accurately, playing it forward when he could. He was central to England keeping possession and his role reminded me of William Carvalho for Portugal. His set play contribution was pretty good to, better than what we normally see on a Saturday afternoon, and he created 6 goal scoring opportunities for his team mates, albeit 4 from set pieces. That does not include the foul that resulted in England's first goal.

I did not particularly enjoy watching him in that role as it didn't make best use of his qualities, but to criticise him for not affecting England's attacking play enough is just wrong when that was clearly not his remit on the day. But I'm pretty sure the manager will treat his goal, assist and 6 created chances as a very welcome bonus.